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France Leading Charge Against OOXML

Bergkamp10 writes "As Microsoft's Office Open XML document format waits in ISO limbo, South Africa, Korea, and the Netherlands are now actively pursuing the alternative Open Document Format instead, said the ODF Alliance. The Alliance now claims 500 members, and by their count 13 nations have announced laws or rules that favor the use ODF over Microsoft's Office formats. Those nations include Russia, Malaysia, Japan, France, Belgium, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, and Norway. The French have been the most aggressive in their rejection of Microsoft's standard; nearly half a million French government employees are being switched to OpenOffice. There has been no similar move in the US, though in a speech at Google last week Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama called for data to be stored in 'universally accessible formats.'"

20 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Viva la french! by DeeQ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Viva la French for their choice of OpenOffice

    1. Re:Viva la french! by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Conditioned?

      Let me tell you a story.

      A few years ago there was a song that got a lot of play at Republican campaign events, that had the lyrics, "I'm proud to be an American/where at least I know I'm free."

      Now, being the kind of nerd I am, my immediate reaction was, "How do you know you're free?" and "What do you mean by at least?" I suspect the answer to the former is "Because I was told I'm free," and the latter is "I may not have control over my work or personal privacy, but it's nice to be told that I'm free nonetheless."

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Viva la french! by Fozzyuw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oh well, I guess I'll burn some karma for this topic.

      How about the high-profile Hollywood screenwriter strike?

      High profile? Are you kidding? Paris Hilton, Brittney Spears, and Lindsy Lohan got more press coverage for drunk driving in one day than this entire strike has garnered this entire time. In fact, the last I heard in the news was how the Screenwriters are screaming conspiracy because they're NOT getting the air-time they want!

      And it's not "la French", it's "LES French".

      You're right, but I think he was going for "la France" as that's the popular phrase, but this isn't French class. Would it be too ironic to call you a French grammar Nazi?

      I can't avoid feeling antipathy for the French

      Why?The France are generally great people (as much as I love to give them the hardest time about their poor government programs, shitty service at banks and government offices, or their military victories). Speaking as an American who's engaged to and has been dating a French woman for over 4-years. By no means am I an expert, but I've a fair share of French Culture, sometimes the hard way.

      but I must concede to them

      That would be a first. You'd definitely take them by surprise. ;P

      it takes balls to stand up for their rights the way they do.

      See, now I know that you don't understand the French. It doesn't take balls. It doesn't take much at all. Striking in France is practically a hobby. They... Do... It... All... The... Time... Seriously, I cannot remember a time I was in France that didn't have strikes (or riots). I only laugh when CNN or some other outlet covers it as some sort of "end of France" like story.

      Sadly, there's a group of people (usually college students) that don't even know half the facts about what they're striking about. All they want to do is participate in a strike. Strikes also go far beyond "right". Just ask all the students and professors that where forcibly turned away from their classes (during important exams no less) by other students that were protesting. "My 'Rights' trump yours" is a more realistic motto for for some.

      France is also as media driven as the U.S. All it takes is one news broadcast or paper to say "train works will have to work more for less" to send all government workers on Strike without understanding the situation. Simply put, protest is part of the French culture. Just ask Marie Antoinette, who took away their baguettes and she lost her head. =P

      It's hard to be on strike and lose many days of pay.

      Tell that to the endless number of people who are not striking and cannot make it to their jobs against their will because they rely on public transportation. How about the harm to their countries economy? For what? The reasons for these strikes are just asinine. They're not trying to abolish the train system, striking to show what it would be like to not have trains isn't going to make a point. They're not trying to layoff the train work force. Striking to show how less workers would mean less trains and poorer service is not going to make a point.

      In fact, that extra 6 billion euros a year they will get for moving the retirement age back to 55, instead of 50, could be spent to INCREASE the number of jobs available. Something that France still needs badly. But this small group of French activists don't see it like that. It's "more work, less pay" and that's how the media totes it. Good thing the majority of France isn't that stupid and support president Sarko's reforms despite the hardships the monopolist unions are trying to strangle the French citizens with by forcing them into submission and making their lives hell.

      The real story about the recent train strikes isn't the train strikers but the average French commuter who continues to go to work in defiance to the strikes. That speaks louder than the *yawn* Paris marches.

      Cheers,
      Fozzy

      --
      "The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." ~1984 George Orwell
    3. Re:Viva la french! by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now, being the kind of nerd I am, my immediate reaction was, "How do you know you're free?" and "What do you mean by at least?"

      In the context of that song, it means that "everything might not be perfect in my life, but even if I have nothing else, I have my freedom". You probably don't need to spend a lot of time reading between the lines there.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    4. Re:Viva la french! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do you always have to compare yourself to the very worst the planet has to offer?

      Compare your policies to the rest of the civilized world and you'll start to feel rather depressed.

      The ad hominem attacks don't help your case either, by the way. You might try to drop them. Unless you're running for office in which case they're fine.

    5. Re:Viva la french! by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      So what you are saying is, along as you are not amongst the very worst you have no right to complain, no right to work to achieve a better society, that being the leading society is unimportant, that falling freedoms and workers rights are not a problem until such time as they are the worst in the world (of course then it will be to late to complain).

      Face it the mass media twisted American dream is in reality the American nightmare, you can not have a minority rich with out a majority poor (which is why the significant republican attack upon the middle class, they are the greatest threat to the rich and greedy), that is what being rich is, having more than every one else around you and in fact by definition you have to strive for them to have less.

      The real function of society is to have a healthy and happy society not to enrich and empower a minority at the expense of the majority.

      As for religions and cults, what is the real difference apart from numbers. As for the mass media attack upon authority and the rich, say what, which media are you talking about, not that fictitious liberal media, oh it's that nasty foreign media, the bloody BBC at it again.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:Viva la french! by sodul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OK my bad for not using preview and test the link, slashdot broke on the accented letter, but the Google Translate page work:
      Financing of trade unions in France

      Here is a quote:
      "Some unions are also accused of having had recourse to occult financing, in particular by using work council funds, especially the CGT with the works council at EDF. At the beginning of 2000, this controversy has taken a turn justice on the one hand with the dismissal of the Director General of the CCAS, which had raised serious irregularities and malfunctions, and, secondly, by the submission of a complaint on behalf of agents. Bernard Thibault, secretary general of the CGT, has been heard by the court in July 2006 in connection with this case and a criminal investigation was opened for breach of trust, fraud, forgery and use of forgeries and misuse of company assets"

      Also the workers are not on strike are subject to violent pressure, and many admit they go on strike so they tires don't get slashed, or so they can get promoted (some companies are union run, while not owned by the unions):
      If you don't join the strike we'll break your car.

      My uncle was beat up and spent a few weeks in a hospital, ending up partially disabled because he was not pro-strike. He was minding his own business, closing his shop for the night at the time. I supposed that's what 'union' stand for: 3-4 guys 'unite' to beat someone up so he will see things their way.

  2. Barack Obama called for data to be stored in... by pipatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Barack Obama called for data to be stored in 'universally accessible formats.'

    And all it takes is for Microsoft to say "Look, our document format is also universally accessible, we even have 'open' in the name," and most people would believe them. Good thing though, Obama seems to have some sort of grasp about the concept of computers and the interwebs.

    --
    c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    1. Re:Barack Obama called for data to be stored in... by idiotwithastick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good thing though, Obama seems to have some sort of grasp about the concept of computers and the interwebs. Or just a good grasp of what his advisors tell him to say, in order to get the vote of the "Slashdot crowd."
    2. Re:Barack Obama called for data to be stored in... by DMoylan · · Score: 2, Insightful
      > we even have 'open' in the name,"

      an old trick. from the brilliant series "yes minister"

      Sir Humphrey Appleby, the supreme bureaucrat says, "I explained that we are calling the white paper 'Open Government' because you always dispose of the difficult bit in the title. It does less harm there than in the statute books. It is the law of inverse relevance: The less you intend to do about something, the more you keep talking about it."
    3. Re:Barack Obama called for data to be stored in... by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have no problem supporting a candidate who hires and listens to advisers that tell him to talk about the value of open file formats. Heck, acknowledging there's a problem that publicly is a great step. Compare that to another candidate, say someone named Willamy Blimpton, who listens to advisers that tell her to play down the issue or waffle so they can gain the support of Microsoft, and you'll see that the "he just listens to his advisers" isn't all that useful an argument.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  3. Re:Korea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So they know the pains of vendor lockin.

  4. Two different replies to this. by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From two coworkers not directly related to computer science:

    - What? Everybody uses Word.

    - Oh, dear god, please let them reach a consensus.

    Guess which one works as the step between scientific writers and printing services.

    1. Re:Two different replies to this. by o'reor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some day they'll discover that Word's binary format is actually Microsoft's best attempt to encrypt TeX source. :)
      Maybe not the binary .doc format, but you should take a look at Microsoft's Rich Text Format and consider how much of it was inspired by (La)TeX...
      --
      In Soviet Russia, our new overlords are belong to all your base.
  5. Rules, laws what about free choice? by mmoroz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Goverments documents should be stored in format that is free and open and has free converters to other accepted formats - that is all. Law that says i need to use odf format, is as bad as using M$. Hey but looking at other people comments i see: "as long it is odf SCREW FREE CHOICE".

  6. Legal? by fitten · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Obviously, other countries may be different, but it should be illegal for the USA Government to enforce, by law, the use of one product/standard over the other, IMO. Certainly laws should exist saying something like all data should be stored in open standards formats approved by X$ organization, which at this point is the same thing (since OOXML isn't approved by any such organization, yet). It shouldn't dictate exactly which standard, though... because at the very least, they'll also get bogged down in specifying what version(s) are allowed, and all sorts of other issues, not the least of which is depriving free-market decisions on which standard(s) to support by various vendors.

    The government technically isn't allowed to compete with private industry either (for obvious reasons), but unfortunately, that happens often enough these days as well :(

  7. Free choice for whom? by Per+Abrahamsen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It makes perfectly sense for the government to standardize when practical on some formats for its own documents, so citizens won't have to have converters for zillions of different formats, just in order to talk to the government. In this regard, the government is like any other big organization, and should have the free choice you seem to advocate against.

    Where the free choice of the government should be limited is that they should not be allowed standardize on formats that are entangled with legal limitations.

    Apart from that, we can argue on technical merits on what formats to standardize on.

  8. Universally accessible != universally editable by bandannarama · · Score: 2, Insightful

    in a speech at Google last week Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama called for data to be stored in 'universally accessible formats.

    With the availability of the free (as in beer) Word document viewer, it's arguable that Word .doc files are in fact universally accessible already, for some reasonable definition of universal (cf. universal telephone access). You might argue that people still have to buy Windows, which could constitute an obstacle to universal access; but going one level further, they also have to buy a computer regardless of which OS runs on it, so even a free software solution isn't actually without cost.

    --
    Bandannarama
  9. Re:Brits already did this by coolGuyZak · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's some irony in that Obama's technology proposal on docstoc is a Word document and that you can't download it without logging in.

  10. Re:Becasue OOXML is absolutely *not* open by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, I also think that the big distinction is: You're allowed to use whatever format you damned well please. In most cases where they're talking about a government adopting "open formats", they're talking about using open formats for specific kinds of communications. More specifically, the laws force the governments themselves use open formats for documentation that is supposed to be "publicly available". So if your local/state/federal government tells you that you must download a particular form or document, they must make that document available in a format that can be read for free. If they make that document available in MS Word format, then the government is essentially *forcing* their citizens to buy Microsoft Office.

    So, you know, it's not like you aren't allowed to own MS Word, and it's not as though saving a private document in MS Word format will result in police breaking your door down. The law just means that the government won't be forcing you to buy a particular piece of software, and a side-effect of this is that it encourages software developers to support open standards.