Opera Tells EU That Microsoft's IE Hurts the Web

kastababy writes "In yet another instance of up-and-coming browser developers fighting back against the Microsoft behemoth, the makers of Opera have filed a complaint with the European Union against Microsoft. In their complaint, they allege that IE's 77% market share abuses its dominant position by tying IE to Windows and its refusal to accept Web standards, causing significant interoperability issues. The complaint also requests that the EU's Antitrust Division force Microsoft to separate IE from Windows and accept several different standards, thereby resolving major interoperability issues and providing consumers more choice in the browser market." Update: 12/14 19:47 GMT by Z : We also discussed this yesterday.

Comments

Problem in Accepting Standards

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it would be great if IE at least tried to follow web standards, but forcing them to adopt them is hard to enforce, as no current browser (that I'm aware of) follows the standards 100%.

But in IE's case, it seems almost to be a complete disregard for the standards.

Decoupling IE and Windows...

[Anonymous Coward]

would make it kind of irritating to get any browser. You can't really tell them they have to provide a browser written by a competitor, so how would people go to websites to download the browser they want?

Re:Decoupling IE and Windows...

[Joe Jay Bee]

Sure, and the beige box builders get a browser how then?

I, personally, have no qualms with Microsoft shipping IE with Windows. It is their product, after all. BUT they should give OEMs the option to strip it out and replace it with Firefox/Opera/Safari/K-Meleon if they so desire. Which, really, is what this is all about.

Re:about time

[diskis]

Oh, standards indeed. Would you like me to inform you on how incompatible microsoft is with microsoft?
Let's limit us to address books for example.

Outlook express 4 and 5 not compatible:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/244459

MS outlook to MS spam software, not compatible:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/179962

Outlook E supports folders in address book, but not exporting folders:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/241875

That was only from the first result page using keywords address book import error... If they can't standardize on a way to store contact information, can you even claim that microsoft makes *standards*? There is nothing standardized in that company. Show me a single nontrivial webpage with CSS that looks the same in IE 5,6 and 7 WITHOUT any nonstandard hacks. Even when following Microsofts own guidelines, or software that is not possible.

Re:about time

[CastrTroy]

And MS has decided to go with the MS Word HTML rendering engine for Outlook 2007. What a terrible piece of crap that is. Just when we thought they were making some headway with IE7, they go and pull this stunt. I'm not the biggest fan of HTML email, but making a move like this is just terrible.

Re:Microsoft is a world wide monopoly...

[Ash-Fox]

Nor does interpreting HTML in a slightly different way.

Indeed. But interpreting HTML the way IE does is vastly different.

Since MS has over 80% of the market share, one could easily say they are the de-facto standard and if Opera doesn't like it

Web standards are not defined by Microsoft.

they can interpret pages how MS does.

Not only does IE not interpret things to what is considered standards, but it also uses Microsoft's own incompatible technologies that prevent other browsers and operating systems from adopting them. Additionally, with Microsoft being the 'standard' in this case, this makes it impossible for the industry to grow without Microsoft creating more 'standards'.

Additionally, the ultimate fault is with web developers - if they cared about Opera's users, they'd test their pages on it. They don't, and that tells you all you need to know.

It isn't about caring. Opera will render standard compliant pages well, period. IE does not work with standard compliant pages - hell, it can't even do HTMLv2 properly. When you have to support a browser that is used by the majority in such a way that it makes it very difficult to support browsers which are standards compliant, the web developer can be forced due to other constraints (time, money, more effort) to just not support them. If a web developer could write for a standard and have browsers just work with them (it's rare that you will find standards compliant pages that do not work between firefox, safari, opera etc), it would be fine.

That's not happening here. Equating the use of proprietary file formats and non-comformity to "standards" that some group has adopted with anticompetitive practices is ludicrous.

Considering the fact a web browser is supposed to browse the web, the web having a standard that programs are supposed to follow to make it work. Microsoft taking this standard, breaking it and then adding their own proprietary additions, gaining control of the majority of the web 'market', leaving little choice to web developers when they develop new web sites.

I don't know if you recall the purpose of the web. But it's main goal and design is meant be a cross-platform, cross-architecture design for handling content on the "world wide web" - granting access to all who adhere to the recommendations/standards from the formation of standard organizations such as the w3c, ISO/IEEE and others. Microsoft has broken the design of the web in ways that I consider is anti-competitive.

Embrace, break standards (so other software does not work well with Microsoft's implementation) and extend with proprietary lock-ins.

Re:about time

[Dracos]

CSS2.1? How about they start with something simpler to fully implement, like

• HTML 3.2
• DOM Level 0
• HTML 4
• DOM Level 1
• CSS 1
• DOM Level 2
• HTML 4.01
• XHTML 1.0
• CSS 2
• DOM Level 3

If there's anything I forgot, it belongs on that list. IE has never fully supported anything.