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'Extreme Security' Web Browsing
Sarah S writes "The application security researcher Jeremiah Grossman described to CSO magazine how he takes extreme measure to stay safe online. The simplest tip he uses: two separate browsers: 'One, which he calls the 'promiscuous' browser, is the one he uses for ordinary browsing. A second browser is used only for security-critical tasks such as online banking. When Grossman wants to do online banking, he closes his promiscous browser, opens the more prudish one, and does only what he has to do before closing it and going back to his insecure browser.'"
How exactly is this strategy going to protect you from a keylogger?
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~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
The article is silly. I mean most exploits are going to have a trojan running on your machine via exploits, usually with keylogging and other nasty tricks. The only thing you can stop with two browsers is the spread of cookies or activex plugins tied to your browser. The rest are going to be active regardless and will be collecting information no matter what program you are using.
The only way to be safe is to use an up-to-date browser, (and lets say anything not-IE). And if you have Firefox, look into AdblockPlus, and NoScript. If you don't want cookies to bother you, set them to this-session-only. And lastly, Firefox has a lovely "Clear private data when closing Firefox" option if you want it.
>> Doesn't everyone do that?
Does everyone go deep down into paranoia taking painful and mostly useless security measures ? No.
Not much content there...
Am I living under a rock because I have never heard of Cross Site Request Forgery?
Is it known by a different name?
Well the news is not well reported. This tip aims to protect against "Cross Site Request Forgery (CSRF)--considered one of the most insidious but least appreciated threats in application security". So clearly it does not pretend to address key-logger issues
For sure, in this context, the tip is quite effective.
You can have both usability AND security... "common sense" is to use a browser with both all the time.
This is akin to putting a 5 inch thick steel door on the front of your house and unlocked screen door on the back. Once the "weaker" browser is compromised, generally at the very least it's going to allow user-level execution, so an attacker could modify the settings on the "secure" browser or insert a keystroke logger.
Interesting countermeasure against CSRFs. I can just imagine Mr. Grossman not quite referring to IE (the promiscuous one) vs. Firefox (the safe one).
Given the above and operating conditions being equal (with use of solid anti-virus and firewall measures), it seems to me that if a well-designed browser was used in the first place, then there would not be a need for a "promiscuous" browser. In fact, wouldn't the use of a "promiscuous" browser increase a user's risk when conducting, uh, questionable activities? End result (cue alarming music here): the box gets compromised, and it doesn't matter if a safe browser was used for banking, etc., something nasty now lives in the box.
Continuing the FF vs IE model, if FF was designated for promiscuous activity, then the user is arguably better protected. So that leaves us with IE as the "safe" browser? The mind reels.
I know there are alternatives (Opera, Konq, etc.), but presumably Mr. Grossman is addressing mostly Windows users.
Science never settles, never rests.
This guy is a "Security Researcher"? Let me get this straight. You have 2 browsers, one insecure, one secure. On the insecure you do your daily stuff, on the secure you do your banking. Ok. Say your insecure browser gets compromised due to a vulnerability that is not yet patched or there is no patch for. Some of the browser vulnerabilites allow for full system control. Then what? Your whole system is now FUBAR. So there goes your "secure" browser. 15 year olds have more security sense then this guy.
What he's describing is not a way of keeping your computer safe, it's a way of hiding porn from your girlfriend. You use some browser that she's never heard of for all your illicit surfing. Then, she fires up your computer and starts running IE, she looks in your history and sees slashdot and CNN or whatever and doesn't think you're a pervert (which you are).
It's also a good idea to have "honeypot porn" which is basically, a few very innocuous sites that you vist in IE that you intentionally want her to find - because once she starts looking, she's going to keep looking until she finds something. Best to give her something to find. Let her think you go to maxim.com or something.
If anything, I'd do it the other way around. Promiscuous browsing on IE will certainly get you infected (ever open a pron site with IE? I haven't in years, and I don't plan to start now- even if those exploits have been fixed). I explorer is the only browser I can remember that would just let a virus download and install itself while you battled 80 popups. I understand Iexplorer7 is slightly better, but come on- that's what people are targeting, new exploits will come up.
I do things exactly opposite. I use opera for all my browsing, and nothing gets through. Then I load up internet explorer for my online banking. (my bank requires IE). I see no danger in that, because internet explorer is clean when I do it, thanks to the fact I never use it (and I clean my system regularly) with hijack this and pv and what not.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
Nothing is as secure as your own memory..
Let us understand the flaws of this guys "grand" idea:-
1 - There is no as such a absolutely secure browser, there is no stealth mode even if you are on it how are you going to log into an account?.(Every one has holes too;)
2 - Browse without "Anonymous" proxy and your IP is advertised, i.e.. your system is out in the open..(Like someone mentioned - Keyloggers,trojan.. many many others can evade)
3 - There are always SBS(Some Bloody Software) trying to open ports for pirates.
4 - In an era of high bandwidth internet where is the wait to guess what's wrong with a computer.( scan it all )
Now..
Think, why do you have brains?
Can it keep secrets?
Can you trust it?
1- Remember and Type all your passwords & user id's- its tough if you are used to someone else remembering the password for you, its proven good for your brain..
2- Accept cookies from sites you trust ( avoid inter-site tracking cookies )
3- Keep no cache memory
4- Use ssl login whenever possible. (https://mail.google.com/mail/)
5- Use a browser without susceptible addons
6- Hide your WAN IP. ( google "anonymous browsing" )
7- Try to even remember your account numbers ( After a while it dissolves )
Give it a thought.
#3 pencils and quadrille pads.
How is this going to protect you from sharks with fricken' lasers on their heads? Or even ill-tempered sea bass with lasers on their heads. Oh, wait, this scheme isn't designed with sea bass in mind. Or sharks. Or keyloggers. It's designed to protect against cross site scripting.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
No chance in hell... I have my own account and she doesn't know the password. Unless I get caught red-handed, she won't know.
What you have just described is totally different and doesn't in anyway address the class of attack (Cross Site Request Forgery, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSRF ) talked about in the article. It has little to do with scripting or zones, or that one browser is IE or the other is Firefox. Is has everything to do with the fact that two *separate* browsers are used, and that web sites in the untrusted browser can't send requests to the guy's logged in banking session.
Turning off scripting doesn't guard against CSRF either BTW. I wish people would read the bloody article (and understand it!).
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Simon
If you're girlfriend doesn't know you're a pervert then you're doing it wrong.