Intel Resigns from One Laptop Per Child Project

theodp writes "Reportedly angered by the One Laptop Per Child project's demand that it curtail work on its Classmate PC and other cheap laptops, Intel has resigned from the project's board and canceled plans for an Intel-based OLPC laptop. Intel's withdrawal from the project comes less than six months after the chip-making giant earned kudos for agreeing to contribute funding and join the board of OLPC. It's the latest blow to the OLPC, whose CTO quit earlier this week to launch a for-profit company to commercialize her OLPC inventions."

Comments

FPFPFPFP

[xtracto]

Thats what happens when you leave the wonders of "capitalism" do their job. Everybody wants a piece of the $$$$$ and after they see that there is market for something they will try to milk the cow!!

Re:FPFPFPFP

[Anonymous Coward]

there is no money in this market. they are "competing" with a nonprofit, and will pull out once OLPC is dead. this is a business strategy, and the losers are OLPC and a generation of children.

Re:FPFPFPFP

[Smidge204]

What confuses me is that the OLPC association is ADAMANT about not offering their product commercially. This makes no sense. Given:

1) Minimum production runs are required to meet the desired price point
2) Meeting minimum production quantities had been difficult
3) There is demand in the private/consumer market for the product

It seems to only make sense to offer the units to the consumer market, which would solve the minimum production run issue AND help subsidize the cost of the units shipped to their intended market. Especially since, by definition, their intended market is the demographic that can't afford them in the first place.

Extending and promote the "get one give one" program, is one way to do this. Another way is to sell them for a slight profit ($300 each instead of $200?) to schools in industrialized countries for the same purpose. Being a non-profit company does not preclude actually making money.
=Smidge=

Re:FPFPFPFP

[pla]

Everybody wants a piece of the $$$$$ and after they see that there is market for something they will try to milk the cow!!

I would normally agree with you... Except that a commercial low-end laptop offering by Intel wouldn't compete with the OLPC. Quite the opposite, in fact! OLPC had Intel pouring money and technology into a project that would effectively give away what Intel hoped to sell.

I consider myself pretty hardcore anti-corporate, and I find it pretty hard to call Intel the bastards on this one. They wanted to sell to a market that OLPC didn't want to touch (and apparently didn't want to let anyone else touch, either).

Re:FPFPFPFP

[Nikker]

Look at their curriculum first off. Who is going to teach these young people what they want / need to know rather than what their government is willing to sponsor. Just to give you a point of reference this paper shows how most students have no curriculum to begin with and are out of school most of the year. There are too many teachers getting infected with AIDS and other diseases even if there is funding. In sub Saharan Africa 30% of teachers get AIDS, exposing children to the virus and of course leaving the children without a teacher to tell them anything.

If they had a way of looking up things that interested them whether it be educational or not it is a light year past what they are getting now. Even if we were to take the $150 per laptop and give them the cash you can note the first paper and look for World Bank restructure, there it tells you even when the countries have money they are instructed by the World Bank what they are allowed to spend on this is quoted "conditions set by the World Bank and IMF within the context of structural adjustment".

The best bet to help these kids is to give them SOMETHING. There are even hits on Google that show the UK is hiring up most of the teachers from 3rd world countries that are any good. These kids have nothing, at least this will give them a chance to augment their lives with some social knowledge and maybe a static copy of Wikipedia. That might give them somewhere to start, something solid, something.

Re:FPFPFPFP

[crush]

I agree. Intel are just seeking to benefit from the original research and development which was initiated as a result of Negroponte's non-profit. This desire of large corporations to leech of the innovation undertaken largely by academia is a developing trend and what makes this instance more disgusting is that the people hit hardest by this are the kids in the developing world that Intel is now refusing to help. A secondary point in this discussion is that people seem to forget that there are and have been shortages of e.g. Flash memory and other commodities and Intel is effectively now committing itself to driving up the price of those parts by repackaging (probably with Mary Lou Jepsen's help) the innovations of the OLPC so that rich geeks can have yet even more toys. There is no way that Intel comes out of this without looking like complete cunts.

Re:FPFPFPFP

[tgd]

Wait, how exactly are these teachers exposing their students to HIV?

I may be in the minority, and of course I grew up in the US, but I didn't have unprotected sex (or any sex), shoot up with needles or have ritualistic blood letting ceremonies with my teachers in school.

Somehow I doubt things are THAT different in Africa.

Re:FPFPFPFP

[sumdumass]

.and I call bullshit on this

A low-end laptop with Windows would compete with the OLPC - many see learning the current popular tool as more important than a real education. The classmate wouldn't work in as many places as the OLPC, but the OLPC isn't limited to the dirt floor hut schools, so the low-end that the classmate would pick up could impact OLPC.

What is the goal of the project? To get computing technology and educational opertunities to poor third world countries in an attempt to bring them out of the third world and give them hope for the future? or to Drive Windows from the market place? IT would seem to me that if both achieved the same goals, the it would be a win. That is if the goal is the former and not the later. But then I would have to question the motivations and representations of the later.

I don't think anyone would argue (please prove me wrong - I'd love to see the argument) that Intel would not have created the classmate if the OLPC didn't exist - this was their competitive answer to the OLPC.

Your right, there is no argument here. But this is typically the outcome of third party or minority politics. You create an awareness that causes another more influential party to take notice and adopt part if not all of your strategy and concerns and carry the torch for you. This might not be fame and fortune but if your goal wasn't fame and fortune, you haven't lost out on much.

In creating the classmate, Intel is putting SHORT TERM profits before educating the world's poor (which would open up new markets). This is what I have come to expect from corporations, and as an anti-corporate person myself, I believe this is acting bastardly. Not letting go of the classmate is a continuation of the bastardness.

I don't think the Classmate is even close to competing with the OLPC offerings. It is more of a "We can do it" product then anything. It shows that they are able to produce low power units too which is good for sales and profit. They don't even have to market the classmate to get the benefit of having one. But even if they did market the Classmate, it is an order of expense above the OLPC. It would be aimed at a different demographic, one that OLPC has already claimed it will ignore. So I guess the bastardness of the situation if we would have to have one is the idea that only poor children on countries the OLPC deems worthy is able to get the cheap and rugged laptops. I would love to have one or two of these just to have something I could take on a job site with me without worrying about breaking a $2000 laptop or getting it stolen from the car. The Classmate or the OLPC would actually be great for me because it equated the price to that of a modern cell phone, is powerful enough to do everything I need for work (documentation, billing recording, port scanning, SSH access and so on).

I think your conflating personal feeling with actualities and are getting confused in the process. But that is something that is expected when you look at things through emotions.

Re:FPFPFPFP

[sf_kahuna]

I can't let this go unasked - how/why do you believe that teachers expose their children to aids? Surely you aren't saying that teachers are having unprotected sexual encounters with their children? Or have I, like "Life on Mars", gone back to another time?

Re:FPFPFPFP

[puto]

Different world view, cannot blame you for it, just you were fortunate to grow up in the US.

I grew up in the US, but have a Colombian father and was privileged enough to live there as an adult for 5 years, so see how the other side lives.

Priveleged in the sense I got to live and work for pesos, no credit cards, cold showers in the Andes, etc. It changed my life.

Sex between adults and teens is very common and excepted in other countries. I know in Colombia when I was a 30 year old college professor, i could have dated 16 year old girls without too much trouble, parents would encourage it. They saw stability in an older, employed person, rather than a young rake, so to speak.

If you ever read missionary works about Africa, particularly Paul Theroux, you will realize most missionary and peace corp people do get it on with the local people.

And I am not only talking about the visiting teachers, but the native ones as well. It is a cultural thing, and they are are very different culturally than we are.

I would reccomend to anyone that things that thinks are "not THAT different" in Africa(or other countries) to truly vistit them for more than a vacation.

Africa is poverty stricken and a wild and wooly country. If the teacher is the guy with a few coins in his pocket to pay you for sex, to in turn feed your family, then you fuck the teacher.

Culturally, it could be an honor to bang the wise man.

And of course since AIDS is rampany in Africa, I think the numbers are valid.

And if you count no shoes, living in huts, abject poverty, and disease as not different than what we have here, you need to take a leave of abscence and see the rest of the world, not Amsterdam.

That name is awesome

[ExE122]

Bender agreed, noting that the OLPC hasn't locked itself into any one partner's technology. "We're looking as broadly as possible, these solutions don't exist just within one company or one architecture," he said.

He then concluded the interview by downing a beer, lighting a cigar, and exclaiming, "Bite my shiny metal ass!"

Re:That name is awesome

[elrous0]

Yeah, well screw you OLPC! I'm gonna go build my own laptop, with Blackjack and hookers!

For profit corporation

[Arthur B.]

So now the CTO will be selling his inventions to people who decide to buy them with their own money, instead of selling them to captive taxpayers in poor countries. I call this a moral improvement.

(burn karma, burn)

Marketing data in place ...

[foobsr]

... now that everyone has his data stored away the project is obsolete anyway.

For an insightful view of the project from India I may refer to 'OLPC -- Rest in Peace', already written July 2006. 'Formula for Milking the Digital Divide' might also be interesting.

Disclaimer.

CC.

Re:Marketing data in place ...

[DuncanE]

Those numbers from India are really eye opening.

For the kind of dollars India has to spend to see a reasonable percentage of the OLPC they could do many different things. Assuming the OLPC really does cost the equivalent of 30% per capita income in India that means if they just buy 3 million of them thats the same as 1 million teachers salaries.

These numbers blow my mind.

Not to mention that India is now probably the largest growing IT country in the world.

The OLPC was meant to be "teach a man to fish and he will feed for a lifetime" , but instead it seems to be more "give a man a cheap JetSki and he will eventually learn to fish".

Re:Marketing data in place ...

[timeOday]

Yeah, I mean, what are the chances a backwards nation like India could ever be sophisticated enough to use computers? What are they going to do, compete with programmers in Silicon Valley over the Internet? Ha! They'll never recoup a $100 investment that way!

Really a blow?

[Potor]

Although it does represent a loss of funds and perhaps some technological support, it also weakens the Wintel aspect of the machine and stresses the philosophical and philanthropic goals of OLPC. And I assume that Negroponte can function perfectly well with AMD, who will now presumably have a lock on this market and the goodwill it generates.

Re:Really a blow?

[ByOhTek]

Win tel?

OLPC has always been a Linux offering I thought. There is no Windows about it it, and that's what MS has been whining about.

It's all about learning

[Marcion]

OLPC is not a laptop project, it is an educational project, the software and the content and more important than the hardware. Intel seemingly could not get over its short term desire to sell its own processors and kill AMD. Silly because if the OLPC takes off then there will be a bigger market for everyone's processors,

Re:It's all about learning

[Marcion]

>Poverty isn't caused by a lack of computers

But it is caused by lack of information and lack of education.

The OLPC comes loaded with electronic 50 books in the native language, it would cost $1000 to print that many books, even more to ship them to the kids. The OLPC also gives access to the web, which allows an amazing amount of information (and an amazing amount of crap too, but that doesn't stop the information).

Re:It's all about learning

[Marcion]

The hardware innovations, on the other hand, have much greater immediate potential

To whom? You are thinking of the potential for the western laptop market. To the child in the developing world, the 50 preloaded books and the educational software are far more important.

Re:It's all about learning

[goldspider]

And when the local warlord rounds up all these laptops to sell them for arms money, what good will all that valuable information do?

Education is indeed on the path out of poverty. Unfortunately in many areas targeted for the OLPC, other hurdles must be overcome before education (and realizing the potential of the OLPC) is possible.

Re:It's all about learning

[Plekto]

That's absolutely true. And, books can be bought and scanned/typed in/whatever and distributed 10 or 20 at a time.

My son goes to a school where they custom design his curriculum. They have four people on staff who make the monthly work for every student(2-3 inch thick binder every month). There are no textbooks - it's all based upon the student and their capacity to learn.

I've seen this sort of thing in practice and it works - as well as saves enormous amount of money. Just OLPC makes it electronic for places where they obviously don't have copiers. The new semester starts? Load in new books and curriculum and go.

As for the OLPC project itself, they can make various forms of UNIX run on PDAs currently(The Zaurus was a good recent example), so they'll find a way to get around Intel and AMD I'm sure. You don't need dual cores and the ability to play Halflife 2 on these things.

Re:It's all about learning

[Anonymous Coward]

>Poverty isn't caused by a lack of computers

But it is caused by lack of information and lack of education.

No, poverty has 2 major causes.

1) Not industrious (lazy)
2) Immorality

Eliminate these from a people and they can't help but have prosperity.

Understand that immorality especially includes their form of government. When anyone steals money from a productive individual who earns it, you're going to hurt your economy. When legal plunder (or regular plunder for that matter) run rampant, it's more difficult to prosper in the degree you are plundered.

And that is why the 3rd world remains the 3rd world. The best thing the "1st world" can do for them is be a good example. No "foreign aid" (too many strings attached) or other such trinkets. Presently, the 1st world is a terrible example.

OLPC is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. It does not contribute to the cause (unless done under the banner of "foreign aid") nor the solution. It can, however, be a tool to help those who are industrious and live in a region sufficiently free from plunder. IMHO, catering to governments is a mistake. You want to cater to parents, who are the real overseers of the education of children. Let them make the investment instead of just tossing the boxes over the wall in hopes of doing something good.

OLPC not a success

[Shivetya]

In November, after the promised high-volume sales to governments failed to materialize, the organization began a $399 "Give 1, Get 1" promotion, in which people could buy XO machines and subsidize gifts to educational programs. O.L.P.C. said it distributed about 50,000 computers in the United States during the promotion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/04/technology/04laptop.html?ref=business

I don't see a problem with Intel moving on, they were trying to push their technology but weren't ready (too much power consumption with their proposal). I do see a problem with the OLPC process apparently not working out and little being done to expose this. If more people knew about it perhaps some would step up and buy the machines.

Maybe not a bad thing

[jav1231]

Hey I use Intel processors but their behavior has been largely disappointing. Joining OLPC no looks like an attempt to avoid bad press. Now that they're leaving one has to wonder if they just weren't getting their way. The whole mess with the Classmate just makes them look like...well...Microsoft.

It's a blow?

[Pecisk]

Honestly, it is much better for OLPC that Intel is open about their intends than just allowing them to party and doing nothing, while acting against OLPC.

Just my two cents,
Peter.

Re:It's a blow?

[autophile]

It's not that Intel was open with their intentions, and so kudos to Intel. OLPC didn't trust Intel. OLPC told Intel that they could join up IF AND ONLY IF Intel dropped their competing product, thus removing Intel's temptation to screw OLPC over. If Intel's intentions were truly evil, they had just been exposed. Intel refused to give up their own effort, thus signaling to OLPC that it would have gotten intentionally or unintentionally poor support. OLPC did the smart thing here, not Intel.

--Rob

No profit in poor people?

[boristdog]

I was sure there was tons of money to be made from the poorest of the poor!

Are you telling me this isn't true?

markets, ideas and idealism

[xzvf]

While I don't think at any level that the XO project is a failure or doomed because of the recent news, it is allowing its idealism to overwhelm its idea. OLPC inadvertently created or tapped a market for small inexpensive laptops that had a lot of pent up demand in developed nations. Because their focus is on education, charity and the government of poor countries (the only people with money there), they didn't realize their product is valuable. This might be the time to step back from the visible hardware side and push the real innovation of the XO project. A lightweight, but extremely functional educational OS, and make sure that gets ported to as many platforms as possible.

her inventions

[dominux]

yes, she will. She helped develop new innovations and bring the project from drawing board to production. Her job is done. Now someone else will manage the continuing development of the product as it moves from technology transfer to mass production.

Just Appalling

[filbranden]

Well, the article is Intel's version of the break. I think that if Negroponte really required Intel to drop the Classmate, it would have been too naive from him. It's almost as if he wanted to pick a fight with Intel and then tell the world that it's Intel's fault and that Intel doesn't want to play ball.

I think OLPC is a great idea, a great project and great technology, but this one didn't look that good for them (at least from the article, which is Intel's point of view, maybe the whole story is a little different, we'll know).

OLPC should try and use the best possible technology to produce the best laptop for the least possible cost. Considering that Intel has been doing lots of advances in cheap mobile power-saving chips, excluding Intel is not a good idea for the OLPC project. With the size of Intel, they are not losing that much by losing the OLPC project comparing to how much OLPC will be losing without Intel's support.

I agree that Intel was not being that clean with OLPC by having their competition project the Classmate, but even then, Negroponte should have been more diplomatic on this issue (again, the article is Intel's version, maybe it didn't happen just like that).

Re:Just Appalling

[elrous0]

Negroponte is an egotistical prick and this whole thing was just a way for him to celebrate himself. I've been saying this since I first saw that 60 Minutes interview, and every time I say it I get attacked with some "No, Negroponte just wants to help the kids. Intel are the real bad guys for daring to challenge this noble hero" crap. But I knew time would show him for what he really was.

What's Intel's value to OLPC?

[gvc]

Why is Intel's departure a blow? Why is a non-competition agreement such an unreasonable thing to expect of a partner? I daresay OLPC's take (which has not yet been stated in the media) is that Intel was helping themselves to inside information and offering little in return.

It would have been nice if Intel and OLPC could have come up with an arrangement to differentiate themselves in the developing world market, but it didn't work out. So they go it alone. The computers are quite different, the OLPC being designed from the ground up for its purpose, the Classmate and friends being crippled conventional laptops.

And whether or not Intel and friends manage to kill OLPC, they wouldn't have had a dog in the race at all if not for OLPC.

Re:What's Intel's value to OLPC?

[gvc]

McDonalds isn't "competition" to the soup kitchen any more than the Asus Eee is competition to the XO Laptop.

You'd be wrong. Intel-insides are actively bidding against OLPC in developing markets. Whether or not the bids are worthy, they are backed by the normal corporate dirty tricks -- including FUD and dumping to name two -- and aimed to kill.

Collectors items

[mrjb]

They are rapidly becoming collectors items. On Ebay they're already selling for over $400. For ONE unit, that is.
Great business model.

1. Buy two laptops for $200
2. Give one to charity
3. Sell the other one for $400
4. Profit!

Re:Collectors items

[shirai]

Interesting, except that it's one laptop for $200 and two laptops for $400.

You can still profit but its more like:

1. Buy two laptops for $400
2. Give one to charity
3. Sell one for $400
4. Break even on cash
5. Get a $200 charity tax receipt

Your net up is a tax receipt which has value which varies depending on how much you pay in taxes.

yes, Wintel

[Potor]

without intel, ms has less of a chance of sneaking onto the machine. and that's why i said weaken(ed), not removed.

Re:yes, Wintel

[ByOhTek]

It could sneak on just as easy with an x86 based AMD.

it'd have to move completely off the x86 platform to really reduce the possibility of Windows use (and even then, I think CE works on some non-x86 setups).

Anyway, who cares, if someone wants to pay extra and put windows on it, it's their business. It's not my job (or yours, or anyones) to dictate what OS can be used on someones computer.

Re:yes, Wintel

[Potor]

It could sneak on just as easy with an x86 based AMD.

OLPC has an x86 based spec, so sure it could, but that's not my point.

Anyway, who cares, if someone wants to pay extra and put windows on it, it's their business. It's not my job (or yours, or anyones) to dictate what OS can be used on someones computer.

But this is closer to my point. If both MS and Intel were on board, you can bet that soon someone would be deciding what OS some developing-world government is putting on its OLPCs. And if this is a charity project, perhaps we do have a job in making sure, or at least in being concerned, that government procurement offices don't fall for MS's rhetoric.

What's the OLPC afraid of?

[16K Ram Pack]

It's yet another cranky decision by the people at the OLPC. Intel to not work on other competing projects? Are they kidding? No company is going to agree that and bet on a single project at this early stage in the development of such projects.

Competition is good. The more different players in this market, the better. Because more innovation will deliver lower costs, and products closest to what people want. If the people at the OLPC care most about getting computing power to the people in developing countries, they'd welcome that,not try and stop it.

The OLPC people just don't get the real world. They closed their "buy one give one" despite that giving free laptops to the sort of people that they claim to be serving.

Re:What's the OLPC afraid of?

[R2.0]

I think they are afraid of the following scenario:

1) OLPC board discusses sales prospects in new countries.
2) Intel rep to OLPC calls home.
3) Intel parachutes into the prospects, hijacking the groundwork done bu the OLPC team to sell the Classmate instead.
4) Profit.

Farfetched? I don't think so.

Faulty math

[edwardpickman]

Sell one for $400, that's called breaking even since you paid $400 and only recieved one machine. Also I'm assuming you paid shipping for the one unit so you lost money at $400. I guess you could try buying a 100 machines and make it up in volume but that never seems to work for some strange reason.

Commercial sale risks alliance falling apart

[Marcion]

What confuses me is that the OLPC association is ADAMANT about not offering their product commercially.

Several of the world's most important tech companies, and lots of talented people, work for free at cost on the OLPC. They do this because OLPC is not competing with their own business operations.

If the OLPC becomes a commercial operation, then they risk cannabalising these firm's own operations, therefore OLPC have to tread very carefully.

Re:Commercial sale risks alliance falling apart

[sumdumass]

Can't they come up with a business model that achieve both ends

Sure they can. However, it seems that for some reasons they don't' want to. It is strange that they are afraid of Intel wanting to compete with itself in a different market area. Maybe the problem isn't so much capitalism but Idealistic visions.

I like the idea of selling them at a slightly higher price to industralized nations (my son asked for one when the buy one give one promotion started and it is only because I am outside of the US that I did not access it). Many non-profits bring down their costs by offering commercial services. I know of one non-profit that maintains a parking lot and makes a tidy sum from it as well as offer medical services to companies to be able to provide it to persons who can't afford it. With all the reports we have heard about OLPC in Africa,good and bad, it would be sad if this project crumbles.

They don't even need to sell the entire thing. Something as simple as selling developed components or licensing tech that could in effect pay for the distribution of the laptops to the target audience would be both beneficial and attract the type of participation that could make it a reality.

I wouldn't mind getting some of the tech in the OLPC project into other products. Something like a pull string on a cell phone that could get you another 10 or 20 minutes of talk time because you know you never realize your battery is about to die until you receive that important call. Maybe something else like the low power display adapted to a visor or eye glass unit and a cell phone or pager sized device that is a computer that hooks to your belt and runs on minimal power requirements. There really is an unlimited amount of stuff that can be had with this stuff without directly competing with the project.

But even on the project's perspective, if the goal is to get cheap or free computing power to third world countries, then why would it be bad if a large company started giving it away too? I mean if Intel developed their own OLPC product and started using their massive corporate profits to give them away or sell them for $200, wouldn't it still achieve the goal? Or is there some ulterior motive behind the project? I understand Intel pulling out, however I don't see it as a major blow. And I see the CTO leaving as a positive more then anything for the project.

Re:Commercial sale risks alliance falling apart

[rbanffy]

"They don't even need to sell the entire thing. Something as simple as selling developed components or licensing tech that could in effect pay for the distribution of the laptops to the target audience would be both beneficial and attract the type of participation that could make it a reality."

That's what going to happen with the screen http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/01/1324240. AMD sells the processor, Marvell sells all the wireless components and there are literally dozens of manual chargers for phones. All components of the OLPC are readily available if you want to build, say, a thousand of them and many are available in stores.

You complain nobody is making a cheap $200 notebook. There is the EeePC from ASUS, which does not employ XO's cool display, but has a better keyboard. If sales are strong, they have proved a market exists for cheap ultraportable notebooks.

Have some patience. Someone is bound to pursue that market.

OLPC will stand or fall on the XO laptop itself

[dpbsmith]

I don't see how any of this makes much difference.

I have an XO laptop, and it seems pretty clear at this point that the existing XO can do, technologically, what it's supposed to do. The hardware tradeoffs were very clever, very well thought out, and they seem to be manufacturing it successfully in quantity. I'm assuming that some teething pains and glitches, which are no worse that typical commercial products at first release, can be dealt with.

I'm not the intended audience for the software. I don't particularly like the Sugar UI, and can't judge how much is just because I just don't "get it" and how much is because I've been brainwashed by two decades of the Mac and Windows. It seems to me that the software has rather a lot of rough edges. But it doesn't matter. It's perfectly clear that the thing works, and is more than capable of being used in classrooms. The browser works, the Alto/Star/1984-Mac write and paint programs work, the PDF viewer works, the wireless access works.

The collaboration and social-networking stuff seems to sorta-kinda work. I have some reservations, but it's there, and there's nothing comparable built into Windows or standard Linux today.

It doesn't matter whether Intel throws a hissy-fit and stomps out or not. Nor does it matter that their hardware designer left: she completed her work and it was good work.

If their education premises are correct, this device is good enough to fulfill them.

And the XOs not comparable to anything anyone can do in the way of building a cheap Windows laptop. The XO has carved out a very distinct, very new, very innovative niche in product space. Nobody is going to be able to make the equivalent of an XO just by taking a standard Wintel laptop and paring down the OS and replacing the disk drive with 1, no, 2, no, 4, no 8 GB of flash, and adding a Windows version of TamTamJam.

If an Intel and/or a Microsoft truly signs on to the OLPC's education premises and puts in an equivalent amount of work producing something as good, as cheap, and as good a fit to the same product space, they might be able to trample OLPC but OLPC's goals could still be achieved. However, the likelihood of Intel and Microsoft doing this is about the same as the likelihood of GM producing a two-wheeled, pedal-powered Hummer that costs $139 and is suitable for a ten-year-old kid.

Re:OLPC will stand or fall on the XO laptop itself

[samkass]

There are a lot of comparisons between the XO and the old Apple eMate from the 90's. Even some blow-by-blow comparison reviews. I'm a little skeptical that if Apple, given its existing educational relationships and market, couldn't pull it off that the XO can. And while the eMate costed $800, it was also marketed at first-world schools. Compared to annual salary, the $200 XO is vastly more expensive to a third-world buyer than an eMate was to an American.

Re:OLPC will stand or fall on the XO laptop itself

[ProfessorDoom]

I participated in the give-one-get-one program and got one of these for my kids (6 and 8). I literally pulled it out of the box, put in the batteries, showed them where to plug in the power cord, and have not touched it since. Two days after getting it, my six year old had written multiple stories and was browsing the web easily enough that I'll need to think about watching where they go browsing. She'd also figured out how to use the microphone and the camera software and was using them somewhat ... creatively (you need to think like a 6-year old...).

Based on this, I'd say the interface is pretty good. They're still getting used to the transactions for pulling up the stories they've written, but other than that it's been very smooth.

Re:OLPC will stand or fall on the XO laptop itself

[samkass]

It's debatable how much "less capable" the eMate was compared to low-end PCs of its day. Most low-end PCs then, and even now, don't ship with built-in pens and touch-screens to use with handwriting recognition. It's true the eMate had a slower processor, less RAM, and a smaller grayscale display. On the other hand, it had about two work*days* of battery life, the screen could be read in sunlight, and the OS was more efficient with the RAM.

So yes, the specs were less, but that's not how I measure "capable". And I think the XO folks are making the same point. The XO is more useful (ie. "capable") than many laptops of significantly more robust specifications.

I think dismissing the similarities so quickly is to ignore a valuable historical lesson. Even if you disagree that it portends likely failure, if you want to succeed you should probably try to learn from the comparison.

Screw Intel. They need to be ARM Based.

[John Sokol]

Arm has made some incredible strides towards standardization and multi vendors. There as so many cheap reference boards these days.

Most arm chips are made with Cell phones in mind as well, some support MMX and Jazelle Java extensions.
Many have Micron CMOS camera chip interfaces and built in LCD drivers, and a mess of GPIO and MMC etc.

Linux and Uboot are a sweet combination on them also.

Look at PXA270 and PXA300 from Marvell & Blackfin (uC Linux)
Also ARM is licensing there chip design for 8 Cents a copy, so you can easily make a ASIC based on arm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture

Also another option is that there is already $5 computers in China and India. There not laptops and you need to connect them into a TV but still they have Keyboard, Mice, Game joysticks and 100's of pirated games on them. Even ones that can web surf. these are from a Chinese company called Gold Leopard King, but they are impossible to track down and contact, but the markets there are flooded with them.

http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/famiclones/gold_leopard_king.htm
The whole computer is just passive switches, and there is only one Chip in the entire PC, it's in the cartridge. Amazing thing, Perfect copies of Mario Brothers, Pac-man, Donkey Kong, Defender, Galaga, Dig Dug. I always get one for the kids when were in India, and just give it away when we leave, it's PAL video out, so we can't use it back in the USA.

Re:Screw Intel. They need to be ARM Based.

[LuxuryYacht]

The problem with the PXA versions of the ARM based SOC's has been proprietary and/or binary only libraries. Linux runs on the core cpu but you run into a wall when you need to get multimedia codecs or 2d/3d graphics support working at any usable rate.

RMI Mips based (formerly AMD/Alechemy) SOC's http://www.razamicroelectronics.com/products_alchemy/ are more open when it comes to multimedia and Linux support.

3DLabs has some multicore ARM mutimedia 2D/3D SOC's http://www.3dlabs.com/content/mediaProcessor.asp . But they don't open the tools and libraries to develop codecs.

Freescale also has their i.MX line of ARM media SOC's http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=0162468rH311432973ZrDR

Debian/Linux and UBoot support is available for the cores for many ARM SOC's but the problem has always been open source with the multimedia and graphics acceleration portions of the designs.

Intel did this to me

[neuromancer2701]

At my old job, we develop industrial test equipment(actually a cooling solution for current equipment) for AMD and Intel. Well as a startup we got in trouble because my bosses were asses. So Intel funded us a bunch of money and encourage us to sell the company to one of their buddies in the test equipment business. We shopped the startup around to various companies but then all of a sudden Intel and this other company(both were "observers" on our board) resigned one day. The following weeks we were "forced" into spliting the company up and the other company got the half of our company that Intel had wanted.

I would bet that the CEO is going to work for Intel to develop a cheap laptop for them. The pattern just looks to familiar.

Someone please explain to me...

[Churla]

I don't see how on this site where the mantra for all things seems to be "competition is good" that Intel should be bashed for not giving in to demands that it not develop products which could be considered alternatives.

It isn't like Intel is going to throw down the humanitarian angle of OLPC anyways, and I thought one of the selling points to companies participating in the project was that advances there could be incorporated into retail devices as well?

If I'm wrong on this please correct me.

Re:OLPC not a success

[mi]

2 months they sold enormous count of boxes.

According to GP-posting, they sold only 50000 boxes. Even if the profit-margin was a whopping $100 on each, that's only $5mln — or barely enough to pay decent salaries/bonuses to top 10 executives for one year. The more likely margin was, of course, in single-digits (10 times less), and the people involved were in it for much more longer than one year...

Could be this continued? Definitely. They just need resources to manage that. [emphasis mine -mi]

Right. A famous excuse for every failing idea.

How it will end, depends not only on OLPC team, but more or less insight in governments around the world.

Excellent. Tax the citizens, milk the donors — a Socialist's dream.

Capitalism

[WED Fan]

What confuses me is that the OLPC association is ADAMANT about not offering their product commercially. This makes no sense.

The great thing about capitalism is that it allows us to run commercial for-profit businesses that provide capital that can in turn be used for non-profit purposes. By selling OLPC commercially and for profit, money could be raised to send them to communities that need them. However, I think the test for "need" should include that food, housing, health, and infrastructure needs are met (again, with money from other capitalist sources).

MOD PARENT UP, informative

[dpbsmith]

Interesting... I've owned Macs since 1984 but haven't paid much attention to what they were doing in educational space. Except to admire the charcoal -grey Bell and Howell Apple ]['s my son used in elementary school, of course...

Re:Abso-fuckin-lutely

[SeePage87]

Exactly. It should also be noted that not-for-profit refers only to the entity; it's goal isn't to make wealth that is distributed to its shareholders. Salaries are still paid to NFPs' employees including the principals who founded the institutions. Sometimes these salaries are very high.

However, this isn't a failure of capitalism. Capitalism allowed the OLPC to be created at all levels, and it was OLPC wanting Intel to cease it's production of more cheap laptops that caused Intel (who had previously done a great deal of good for the project) to step out. OLPC wanted to be the only game in town. Having more cheap laptops for children in the world is a good thing, regardless of who makes them. If the XO is a better laptop, then people will get those. If OLPC can't meet the demand because their product is too good, better to have a Classmate than nothing. So if you want to demonize someone for keeping cheap laptops out of childrens' hands, then demonize OLPC for biting the hand that feeds it.

I have one of these...

[hajo]

Was one of the first to get one. Comments:
It is low powered; booting up takes a while; loading rpograms takes a while. Once up and running it's fine.
I don't like the window manager; The frame that pops up is annoying. I would do a skinny drop down of running apps when hitting the top-left corner, a list of available apps at top right corner etc... or something like that
I HATE the journal as a file manager. This is the first 'activity' that needs to be replaced.
The programming games are fun. My kids LOVE the logo like activity the best.
Some of the software doesn't play well together.
The documentation that comes with it is dramatically subpar. You really need to go to their faq to make any use of the machine. One of the issues with that is that some of the faq info (particularly abvout commecting to a network is not available to you before you are online...)
(At least include a pdf with the latest version of the wiki and faq on it.)
The battery life is very good. (This is before an expected update of the system software; particularly power saving features) early 2008)
It is rugged; wifi reception is better than my Macbbok pro. Too bad you can't connect a cantenna easily that way one of these could bridge a few miles and the rest of the laptops could mesh network with it.
I bought the laptop to do some good and mess around with it.
I'll probably use this laptop on my boat (Will compare it to my toughbook; It's definitely a lot lighter!)
Over all I think it's a success.

Hajo

Re:I have one of these...

[dpbsmith]

I agree with all of your judgments, and am relieved to see I'm not alone.

The UI is not awful, and is good enough, and it was probably correct to think it through from scratch instead of trying to riff on the Alto/Star/Lisa/Mac/Windows. But it still tastes to me like other not-so-good UIs, in which the designer and people that can be coaxed into the same mindspace can be convinced that it's better than it is.

I read the human interface guidelines and I'm not convinced. I've often talked to people who have believed their UI was easy to use because "you always do thus-and-such to achieve this-and-that, and the frammises are always on the left edge, and you ferthboinder toward the top to glorp persistent quibinicks..."

One of the things that was fascinating about the Mac in 1984, which I approached with virtually no previous experience, was that you could intuit it and use it without ever formulating or deducing the consistent left-brained rules by which it operated. For about three days I used it effectively without understanding it at all. I wanted to achieve something, I took a wild guess as to what might work, and it usually did.

I don't feel that way about Sugar, although maybe my brain has just ossified.

If the Journal functioned the way it's supposed to, I don't understand why it, rather than the "home view," isn't the center of the user experience, and the thing you boot into. Seems to me that you'd more often be returning to an old activity than starting a new one.

I "get" the idea of a linear, chronological arrangement of activities rather than a hierarchical tree of documents, but I don't understand how you navigate that arrangement unless you are punctilious about giving each saved activity a good name, and clever at naming them in such a way that you can search for them by typing search strings (which I think only search the name of the journal entry, not the content of the saved activity).

Re:OLPC not a success

[Pecisk]

According to news, 150 000 would be more correct number.

But nice try buddy to paint everyone who wants to solve world problems without involving big fat corporations a Socialist. As Linus said, that if Socialist means to do good things to people, then yeah, we are Socialists.

Just saw one today - disappointed

[peter303]

It screams "toy" all over, like PC Jr.
The functionality is similar to iPod Touch at 2/3rds the price. If Apple puts this in a larger screen, say an iTablet Touch- that could be a competitor.

Re:Just saw one today - disappointed

[repetty]

Think this through....

You propose giving poor African, South American, and Asian kids big beautiful glass and polished stainless steel laptops and then send them walking home from school -- maybe a three to five mile walk?

They'd get fucking killed. They'd get mugged and every one of those things would be stolen.

It's for kids. Little kids. It should look like it for no other reason than to just keeping these kids safer.

--Richard

Re:OLPC not a success

[sumdumass]

You do understand the difference in doing good things and taxing people or somehow demanding a payment from them and then doing what you think is a good thing right?

There is a problem with counties spending the citizens money for what you perceive as a good thing verses you spending your own money on what you perceive as a good thing. The Linus quote was addressing how he cares little about the names being thrown out. Not that he endorses socialism. I'm not aware of any time Linus took tax payer money as a condition of giving Linux away.

Please don't confuse the subject or act like you don't know the difference. You doing something with your own money is noble. You forcing a nation to do the same thing by collecting taxes under the presumption of pain of imprisonment is somewhat a bad thing. Not always but outside of Fire, Safe drinking water and effective security, you know, basic governmental infrastructure, it is generally not good.

Re:Abso-fuckin-lutely

[SeePage87]

The reason Capitalism doesn't fail normally is because consumers don't allow it to. If they don't like something they can immediately retaliate by not purchasing it.

That being said, we do see Capitalism fail frequently in this country because it is too closely tied to government. Capitalism fails when, to get a competitive edge, it is cheaper to buy a politician than make a better product. For example, our sugar prices are 5x the world price because of quotas paid for by the U.S. sugar industry and our corn prices are low because we've already paid most of their subsidized cost in taxes. As a result everything in America is made with corn syrup instead of sugar, even though it tastes worse and is one of the largest causes of obesity in this county because of the way our bodies metabolize it. That being said, this isn't Capitalism's failure so much as the separation of Capitalism and a free market. Similarly, Altruism is great, but if you separate from it the ability to distinguish between which actions help others and which actions hurt others then things can also get ugly. The difference is a free market is able to be set by policy where as it's part of being human to make frequent misjudgments about what others want.

a blow to OLPC?

[Locutus]

This is the same Intel that was going around the world spread FUD about the OLPC project and targetting OLPC customers. Their marketing was more smoke and mirrors than based on reality and the whole ClassmatePC project was started as competition to OLPC. Wow, that's a company we should all just love when they do an about-face and join the OLPC board.

IMO, the only blow to OLPC is that they'll start with the FUD again since I don't think OLPC really needs Intel's chips.

And the CTO leaving to start her own commercial business around the OLPC LCD tech is not a blow either. She helped them get to where they are today and that is in production baby. The OLPC project is not going to follow the Microsoft Windows business model of replacement every 2 or so years and probably has a good 5 years life in the current design. Why do they need her position/experience any more when keeping startup costs low is the goal now. Especially since Intel and Microsoft have both helped delay orders and therefore income. OLPC needs to be lean and mean IMO.

Anybody reading this as bad news is just helping spread FUD about the project. IMO.

LoB

Re:OLPC == Scam

[SanityInAnarchy]

because of AIDS HIV, homosexuals are disqualified from giving blood because of their "lifestyle choices".

Wow. Go learn something about AIDS.

Or, if you're too lazy, I'll spell it out for you: A blind bus driver is actually blind. A gay person may be slightly more likely to get AIDS, but not all gay people have it. And there are other "lifestyle choices" that are actual choices, and actually contribute a good deal more -- like drug use involving dirty needles, or swinging without adequate protection... (Yes, there are monogamous gays. Shocked?)

My first computer certainly changed my life

[Art Popp]

>I still can't shake the feeling that this entire OLPC project is an enormous waste of money, intended more to assuage misplaced Western guilt than to bring about any fundamental change in impoverished areas.

While Western folk who may be experiencing guilt may contribute to this project (perhaps quite handily). There is an iso-standard heap of people who are not guilt driven, and are contributing.

This computer will be the Apple IIe, and the C64, AND the Amiga 500 for two entire continents of people. If you are too young to remember that era, good for you, young is great. But I was there, "poking" machine language instructions into high-memory in BASIC so I could run very tight programs hundreds of times faster than the BASIC interpreter allowed. The OLPC computer is vastly more powerful and friendlier than my Vic20 and C64 were. Kids with a tiny fraction of my obsession with electronics will make their OLPCs do 10 times as many cool things.

This isn't about a cheap-teacher's assistants in foreign schools, this is about kindling a passion for technology in people who currently have little access to it. The Vic20 made a fundamental change in my life. I'm participating because I'd like to make that fundamental change in someone else's.

>And when the local warlord rounds up all these laptops to sell them for arms money, what good will all that valuable information do?

Between the small keyboard, the small screen and the lack of support for any non-Linux O/S. I think a warlord is going to be very disappointed what he can accomplish with these computers.

>Education is indeed on the path out of poverty. Unfortunately in many areas targeted for the OLPC, other hurdles must be overcome before education (and realizing the potential of the OLPC) is possible.

Country's are like Ogre's. They have layers. Even in very troubled countries there will be a layer of kids who get enough to eat, and have enough clean water, but currently go through the whole school year only seeing computers on a television, at a place where they have electric power.

These laptops are for kids in that layer. They will not feed the hungry at the layer beneath, nor overthrow the unjust government over-layer whose poor decisions stifle the nation's progress. These are noble tasks and I greatly admire the people who attack these problems.

I have chosen the problem I am suited to help with. I will donate some laptops to kids in that middle layer and I will find a way to make them more fun/useful/educational.

I don't know if this effort will succeed, but then my parent's were quite certain my Vic20 programming was a waste of time, and that worked out quite well.

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
--Winston Churchill

Re:OLPC not a success

[sumdumass]

Well, first, who is to say that moving from a third world status is a priority? they have had plenty of opportunity to do so in the past and have failed to do so. This is typically because the political or religious or some other ideological environments don't allow it to happen more then anything. If you don't understand this concept, look at the inner city areas where it isn't cool to be smart. where if you succeed, you are a sellout, an uncle tom, or a house nigger. Giving kids laptops aren't going to solve any of that.

Next, the problem is as you mentioned "A chance", You cannot ensure that the money isn't just a waist because of other factors being the problems. You thinking it might be a good idea doesn't make it one. You thinking the outcome of those actions will create a certain environment doesn't mean it will. You thinking that it is the only way or the best way doesn't make it true. You thinking I need to agree with you under pain and penalty of imprisonment is a bad idea. Surely if it is such a great idea and the case has so much merit then people would be more then happy to fund it from private donations. Including the people who would be paying the taxes.

You see, that is the problem with socialism, if it is such a good idea, then why do you need to force people into it? Why do you need government to make people participate? It would seem that it would just be something already happening with a framework of freedom if it is such a great idea. What happens is that you think it is a good idea and other don't for what ever reason. And the reasons for or against might be just as valid. But when you use the government to force people to participate, you are in effect ignoring all the reasons except your own however flawed it might or might not be.

And no, giving kids laptops isn't securing the future of the country. It is giving kids laptops. if the environment is there that allows them to make something of it, then it won't happen. No amount of laptops will ensure the country is still there in the future. It can only make the future a better place but again, that is dependent on other variables that aren't likely to be present.

Link to Intel 2005 "emerging markets" plan

[rbrander]

The strategy:
http://www.nten.org/sites/nten/files/Sustainable%20Computing_0.pdf

Seminar about it:
http://www.nten.org/events/webinar/2006/04/21/sustainable-computing-for-developing-countries

Summary: Intel's "Emerging Market Platform Group" details several computers they've developed that are targeted at the poor in various ways: small laptops, cybercafe machines, school machines, etc.

The document dates to 2005. Intel did not discover this market because of the OLPC project, they have been pursuing it for years. Education is just one of the markets they are pursuing in the developing world. OLPC is obviously in the way of the education area marketing strategy, and so they tried undercutting them, then joining them, and now they're back to undercutting again.

The ethical concern here is not competition per se - its that private companies can "market" in ways that a non-profit project cannot: ways that involve special forms of "persuasion" for the purchasing bureaucrats of developing nation's educational institutions. It's not about the poor buying either product directly, it's about their public servants picking one product over another based on, ah, marketing techniques, rather than measurable cost/benefit ratios.

$239/$188 = 27% higher. If the Classmate lasts 27% longer than the OLPC in field conditions, or delivers 27% more educational value in some way, well and good. But I haven't seen that independent study. I suspect, neither have the department heads that have picked it. Indeed, I kind of suspect they've seen a highly-biased, very slick presentation, while lunching on chicken cordon bleu.

"The Economist" on OLPC

[westlake]

"The Economist" doesn't pull its punches:

OLPC's problems, which can be distilled into four main areas, risk turning a wonderful idea into a plastic paperweight.

In their zeal to rewrite the rules of computing for first-time users, OLPC shipped machines with a cumbersome operating system. For example, adding Flash to do something like watch a YouTube video requires users to go into a terminal line-code and type a long internet address to download the software: it seems impossible to cut-and-paste the address. ... OLPC tried to reinvent the wheel and came up with an oval.

Second, the go-to-market execution...was imperfect. There was a lack of documentation, support and methods to integrate the PCs into school curricula, teacher training, and the like. OLPC seemed to think that just by handing out laptops, everything would sort itself out...The consumer is not the nine-year-old user with infinite time on her hands, but a government bureaucrat who has to evaluate the machines relative to other options.

That leads to the third problem. Since the project launched in 2005, commercial rivals have emerged: Intel's "Classmate" at around $250; Acer's laptop at $350...There are many more...All computer buyers will have to compare the XP to a lot of other products in the market--something that never seemed to have struck OLPC's staffers as a possibility, but should have.

This leads to the final problem that has done the most to disappoint OLPC's fans: the hubris, arrogance and occasional self-righteousness of OLPC workers. They treated all criticism as enemy fire to be deflected and quashed rather than considered and possibly taken on board. Overcoming this will be essential if the project is to succeed past its first release. Technology products improve based on user feedback. The OLPC staff will need to learn to listen to the candid criticism of outsiders for the second-generation of the laptop--or they do not deserve to build one.

Ultimately the OLPC initiative will be remembered less for what it produced than the products it spawned. The initiative is like running the four-minute mile: no one could do it, until someone actually did it. Then many people did. ... Mr Negroponte's vision for a $100 laptop was not the right computer, only the right price. Like many pioneers, he laid a path for others to follow.

One clunky laptop per child.