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A Real Mom Reviews the Games Industry Report Card

Last month's National Institute on Media and the Family 'report card' was pretty much more of the same from the reactionary group. Recently a real parent (Colleen Hannon from GamerDad) sat down with the report to offer up some comments. "They still can't seem to read the names of the games off the front of the box. What they have listed as 'Call to Duty 4' is actually Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. That may seem like a minor mistake, but if you type what's on their list into a search engine to get more information off the ESRB's website or Google, it won't return the real results on the game. And without that last bit at the end, you're going to get a list with all the games in the series which can be confusing and not all of them are M rated. For someone who thinks parents should pay more attention and research they aren't helping them out much." Via GamePolitics.

18 of 126 comments (clear)

  1. Mom I'd Like To... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Frag?

  2. If he's such an expert.. by kailoran · · Score: 4, Informative
    From TFA:

    If I had to come up with some suggestions for a tween/teenage car nut that don't involve getting chased by cops at any point in the game, I'd replace Need for Speed with either "Project Gotham Racing 4" or "Forza Motorsport 2".
    Someone should tell him that the new NFS actually has no cops and is about legal racing this time
    1. Re:If he's such an expert.. by paitre · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact that he knew that was a featuer of games earlier in the series would indicate that he's more of one than most parents' seem to be.

      Even those of the 'gamer generation'.

    2. Re:If he's such an expert.. by somersault · · Score: 3, Funny

      I totally didnt read what you said, but I just want to post saying that I respect you made a post, whatever it said.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  3. The bottom line is parent's don't care by faloi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This whole mess is more about politicians being able to seemingly protect children, and get money/support from lobbying groups that want to protect the children than anything else. Parents that truly care take the time to look at the back of the box, read the descriptions and check the ESRB sticker. They don't bow to pressure from their kids to get a game that they're not comfortable with their kids playing. And then they probably watch their kid play some and make sure it's not outrageous.

    Parents that don't care, or are just prone to give into their kids anyway aren't going to do any research and aren't going to be watching their kids play.

    --
    "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
    1. Re:The bottom line is parent's don't care by Monchanger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly.

      Today's parents just suck at parenting. They lack the minimal backbone required to tell their kids "no," because they try to be friends rather than parents.

      I can't stand how bad parents let their fat kids keep grabbing the Frosted Flakes instead of insisting on Cheerios or Raisin Bran. My grandmother had a strict "no sugared cereal" policy. My siblings and I knew it and didn't even bother trying to get her to budge on it. When I got to choose a computer game for my birthday present one year (the original Civilization), my grandfather not only looked at it (out of parenting and curiosity), he made sure that I was firm in my decision, and didn't just grab I'd toss the next day. Today the most sugared cereal I eat is store brand honey nut cheerios and I don't make impulse purchases. I owe it to the previous generation's parenting skills- my parents were pretty lousy at it.

      Kids used to watch too much TV instead of playing outside. Now they play idiotic action games* on their game consoles (the new "idiot box") and have asthma as an excuse. As Mike Gravel said: "Americans are getting fatter and dumber". Hard to imagine, given the current the amount of flab you see everywhere and the numskull currently occupying the White House.

      * see http://www.gamershell.com/articles/884.html on what's wrong with today's games.

    2. Re:The bottom line is parent's don't care by ucblockhead · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No SOME parents just suck at parenting. Those of us who feed their kids cheerios, restrict their TV and limit them to appropriate video games for appropriate time periods also tend not to whine to congress/the media, hence, we're harder to spot.

      --
      The cake is a pie
  4. So we counter a biased "report card" by n6kuy · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... with someone who's completely biased the other way?

    OK, so she's a "mom", but that doesn't make her the spokesperson for all moms.

    --
    If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
    1. Re:So we counter a biased "report card" by DragonTHC · · Score: 5, Interesting

      She is, however, far more interested in reading about the game ratings than 99% of moms out there.

      Most moms think "he wants this game, so I'll get it for him".

      My old man retired from the computer industry to work at walmart (cause it's the law).
      He constantly turns away moms trying to buy M rated games for their kids. He explains that the game is rated M and it's not meant for minors.

      Most moms say "oh, it's for me", because most moms are bad parents.

      I commend her for taking the time to read about games and their ratings.

      --
      They're using their grammar skills there.
    2. Re:So we counter a biased "report card" by Mr_eX9 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly. It's reverse ad hominem to think that being a mom justifies anything about her argument.

    3. Re:So we counter a biased "report card" by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, there's two problems with your post. First of all, it's transparently obvious he wasn't attempting to be a linebacker tackling some mom, but rather was merely pointing out that, as is reasonable, she was probably buying it for some kid, and that the M meant it probably was not a good choice, as far as quality parenting skills go. The mom could buy it for herself, for her kid, or go get a Winnie the Pooh game instead. Second, "it's still [just] a video game" is like saying, "It's still just a movie", even though it's Scarface. Yes, that's what parenting skills are about: checking out what your kids are doing and making adjustments to it as necessary. These ratings are supposed to help, but it's clear nobody's "tested" them with respect to actual game-illiterate parents. A good portion of parents with "quality parenting skills", who are thus checking out and relying on these ratings, might have a problem finding out more about "Call to Duty" or some un-numbered "Conan" game.

      She's pointing this stuff out, that many of the intended users of this list, video game-illiterate parents, won't know enough to correct the errors and ommissions. Think if someone published a Christmas gift list of "quality knitting needles", and you went to get the #3 needle for your gramma, but the style name was off, and didn't include a model number. Should you "know better, you poor-knitting-skilled buffoon"? Or should the writers of the list have analyzed their target audience better?

      I assure you, the audience for this list is neither teenagers, nor young men in their 20s or 30s.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:So we counter a biased "report card" by porcupine8 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      My mom and I had this discussion/argument over winter break. She was trying to say how my little brother lied to her about the contents of Vice City when he was 13 (he's now 17) and if she'd had any idea what was in it she never would have let him get it at that age, etc etc. She was getting all indignant about how he deceived her, was such a sneaky kid, etc.

      I asked if she saw the rating on the game, and she said yes, but he said that he'd played it at friends' houses and told her it was just about blah blah blah... I cut her off and asked, if he'd pointed out an R-rated movie, claiming he'd seen it at a friends' house and it wasn't that bad, would she just believe that and let him watch it with no supervision? Well of course not, she said! Luckily, at that point she had the sense to get a bit sheepish and let me rant to her about how the video game industry wouldn't be under such fire from lawmakers if parents would pay even a small amount of attention to the freaking ratings like they do to movie ratings.

      I actually remember the incident in question, because I was home for a vacation soon after he got the game. I remember my sister and I watching him do something involving prostitutes in the game, and running to our mom saying "Uhhhhh.... why are you letting him play this?" and her original indignation when she realized what was going on, and the original version of the same argument wherein I pointed out to her THEN that it was an M-rated game and it was her own fault...

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
  5. Ok, this is a joke right! by haplo21112 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First Off:

    "Retailers must return to the level of compliance in previous years" - Ok, lets see when I was a Babbages(Now Gamestop) Manager we didn't enforce anything. You have $59.99 to buy this game here is your copy. You know what - thats the way it should be. Your the parent pay attention to what your kid is buying and playing.

    Then:

    The list of games to avoid, thats a joke too, at least without context. My Daughter is 10 weeks old, but lets scale this up and say she was 10 Years Old instead. I'll go an record as saying several of those games I would let her play when she is a 10yo I don't see a problem. The Half-Life franchise, Gears of War, Call Of Duty and several others I'll let her play those from the moment she can point the mouse in the right direction. She will know the difference between shooting someone on a computer and really shooting someone. Thats my job as a parent to teach her that. Its not some out side random organization's job to dictate that to my child. Now its also important to note that she will not have a computer/game system (or TV for that matter) in her own room until she is 14 at least. Therefore the only systems she will have access too will be in shared and/or public spaces in our house. We will know what she is doing.

    "Mediawise Recommend Games for Children and Teens"

    Not a shooter among them interesting...guess what shooters are fun, and they always have been Atari 2600 when I was kid had a shooter came with the system it was called "Combat" funny that...all those games of combat and I'm not twisted warped or on death row.

    --
    Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
  6. My future with kids and games by Pojut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My girlfriend and I were discussing this a couple days ago, actually. We are both avid gamers (and also both 23). She is more of a classic gamer (Atari, NES, etc.) and prefers platformers, puzzle games, and horror-style FPS (her current favourite to watch is Bioshock...she doesn't like playing scary games, but LOVES watching them be played). I am more of an "in the now" gamer (although I've been going through my back-catalogue of N64 games lately) and prefer RTS, RPG, and RPG/Shooter hybrids.

    Both of us have no problem (and quite enjoy) violent video games. What happens when we have a kid?

    The same thing that happend to us when we were little. Both her parents and my parents would ensure that we could discern the difference between the fantasy in a game and the reality in life...as long as we did that, there were no restrictions insofar as what we watched or what we played.

    I imagine I'm going to do the same with my kid. Naturally, since both of us are regular gamers, we would prolly know what is in their games because we will have played them. Don't get me wrong, they aren't going to be in a Dukematch when they are five, but if at age 12 they want to play GTA7 and can prove to me that they know it is fantasy (and that they know what would happen if they did such things in real life), then they can play it to their heart's content. I would rather my kids be exposed to sex and violence early on in life enough to be able to look at it objectively and not be suprised when they are older and suddenly see something violent and react in the same way that most of the sheep do. I don't want them to be sheltered, I want show them that the world is a violent place, but I don't want to have to show them using national media or ogrish.com or some place like that. Video games make for the perfect medium to introduce children to modern day real issues while not succumbing them to all the bullshit that usually goes along with it.

    After all, would you rather your kids learn about sex and violence WITHOUT you by their side?

  7. Missing... by JMZero · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've spent some time in game stores, and overheard a good few conversations. The best parents ask the salespeople what happens in the game. And the better salespeople can give the kind of information the parent wants:

    "Some people fight each other. Like punching and kicking. There's not really so much blood, but the girls wear very revealing outfits."
    "You skateboard around doing tricks. The crashes are pretty brutal, and there's some crude jokes."
    "You collect and control little monsters that fight and stuff. You don't actually see them fight, you just kind of read what they did."

    And I think that's what's missing from the ESRB web site - they don't give the kind of context many parents need to evaluate a game. Now I think it's reasonably clear a young kid shouldn't be playing either Dead or Alive Extreme 2 or Mass Effect (and both are M rated, which seems right) but look at the content descriptors:

    Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes, Simulated Gambling
    Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes, Blood, Language, Violence

    From just that, you might think these are comparable games. Compare that to the information you get from a synopsis:

    "You ogle bikini girls and buy them bikinis. That's the whole point of the game."
    "You buy guns and shoot aliens. In the story, there's a love scene where you can see a girl's bum for a second."

    Whatever you may think of the relative offensiveness of that content, I think that's information a parent needs to have in order to make a decision. These games' content are very different.

    --
    Let's not stir that bag of worms...
    1. Re:Missing... by JMZero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure why you would think they are comparable.

      My intended point was that the sexual content - described as "Partial Nudity, Sexual Themes" for both - is of a very different nature in the two games. I didn't search the list to find two very different games with an exactly identical list of descriptors, but I'm sure such a pair could be found, and I imagine you get my point.

      I just dont think the one word description needs to be on the ESRB rating.

      To be clear, mostly I was thinking about the ESRB site and how it could be more useful. Currently it shows only rating and a list of descriptors. I think it should also contain or link to a synopsis (or trailer, or site, or something) so that parents have something more substantive to evaluate, and can learn about video game content from a central, trustable source.

      And, yes, I do think this would be a valuable service - a lot of parents, especially non-gamers, are going to have more difficulty judging the content of a game than the content of a movie or book, and could use the help. Sure, there's plenty of info on games on the web already - but it is serving a lot of different purposes (advertisement, discussion of gameplay or quality, etc..) and may be hard to find for the people who need it most. The game box, while likely very helpful for some games, isn't always on hand - and again isn't really geared towards giving this kind of info.

      --
      Let's not stir that bag of worms...
  8. Parent's responsibility by MaWeiTao · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem I've observed with too many parents is that they try to hard to be their children's buddy or they don't want to come off as uncool. So they wont even venture to ask about a game at the risk of coming off as a prude. Too many parents also apparently can't be bothered to look into what their kids are playing.

    Earlier in the year when the media has spun itself into a frenzy, yet again, over violence in games they ran a story about a mother who was shocked to discover that the game she had purchased for her son, Grand Theft Auto, was violent. As if the name wasn't enough of a tip off to questionable subject matter she didn't even have the wherewithal to flip over the damn box and look at the rating or at least see what she could glean from the screenshots. Then again I've seen parents getting games for children which considerably more graphic imagery on the packaging. And I've seen parents taking small children to see fairly intense movies.

    Too many parents can't be bothered to see what their kids are up to. The excuse I often hear is that they can't observe their kids 24 hours a day, so why even bother? They absolve themselves of responsibility and then expect the government to take over for them. And this is where the problem arises. They want to government to oversee everything so that they don't have to worry about anything.

    Parents aren't supposed to by cool; they aren't supposed to be buddies. They need to be responsible for what their kids do and what they're exposed to.

  9. Enough with the censorship nonsense! by shaitand · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For god sake stop retarding the development of your child. The human mind learns from input, be it media content, life, or activities. There is no such thing as bad input, ALL input is useful and the brain derives useful information from it, learns to cope with it, learns what to avoid from it, and so forth. You can't dictate how a child will interpret and store that input, nor are you bright enough to define it by regulating the input, they will get that input anyway eventually and you will only serve to have slowed their mental development.

    Perhaps you think ignorant children playing with imaginary friends are cute. I prefer rational and logical children I can have a discussion with. Ignorance may be bliss but I don't know many adults who would choose to be ignorant or mentally retarded. Maybe you are in the other crowd who wants them to be childlike, read ignorant, for as long as possible so that they are easier to control. Unlike those other pesky teenagers who use critical thinking skills and ask authority figures, such as parents, hard questions, like "Why?"

    How about you try something new. Stop censoring your children altogether, to hell with the other parents, and start advising your children on how THEY CHOOSE to interpret the input. There is nothing wrong with a child learning about the birds and the bees while a toddler. Exposure to foul language can an excellent introduction to the sensitivities of others and consequences. A video game with cars being chased by police (as mentioned in the article) is a great opener to a continuation of the discussion on consequences, being less of an establishment type I would have fun with that discussion. A three year old won't fully understand, but it all goes into that mind somewhere and who said these talks only occur once?

    Worried about desensitization? Don't be. Sensitization is a bad thing, it's what happens when you are underexposed to something and you are unable to cope with the something. It may be a sad world we live in and there may be some things we don't want to have to cope with, but that is a seperate issue. Whether pleasant or unpleasant, it is never advantageous to not be able to cope with something. That leaves you less able to take rational action in the face of that something. Interestingly, the more you let yourself encounter things you are underexposed to, the better your brain becomes able to cope with not being able to cope and the more capable you are acting rationally.

    I'm not saying go find the nastiest goat porn you can and start driving into your child's mind 24/7. I am merely saying don't censor what comes your way anyway.