Inside Visual Studio 2008

mlimber writes "Dr Dobb's Journal has a peek at what is new in Microsoft's Visual Studio 2008. Most of the features discussed in the article are related to .NET, web development, and the IDE itself. However, Herb Sutter, Microsoft software architect and chair of the ISO C++ Standards committee, blogged about some developments on the C++ front. This includes a significantly enhanced MFC for GUI building, and the inclusion of TR1 (library extensions published by the C++ standards committee, most of which have also been incorporated into the next C++ standard)."

Comments

Thanks for asking

[Tony]

Fuck, yes.

C++ sucks. It's a half-assed attempt at an object-oriented language, combining the easy memory model of C with the simple OO model of Simula. I used to think the only good thing about C++ was templates. Then I figured out that templates suck, too, because they're damned near impossible to debug, for most non-trivial bugs.

I fuckin' *hate* C++. I'd much rather have to code straight C while being punched repeatedly by a baboon.

Objective-C is much less ugly. But then, so is LISP. (Actually, LISP is a damned good language. It's just not *pretty*, in a strictly aesthetic sense.)

So, to not be snide, there are *many* people who still code in C. There are many objective reasons to avoid C++. (This *was* about C++, wasn't it?)

Re:Thanks for asking

[epine]

The strangest possible criticism of C++ is the superiority of C. Unlike most languages, if you don't like a C++ feature (one that C doesn't have) you don't have to use it, and there is little or no runtime penalty imposed.

The strangest possible criticism of C++0x templates is that they are impossible to debug. It is, after all, the primary focus of changes to the C++ template system to drive diagnostics to the appropriate surface (at long last).

This is the fundamental advantage of a hammer over a pneumatic nail gun. The nail gun might be perfectly safe is used wisely, but human nature decrees that ultimately many people are going to file off the safety, leading to predictably gory anecdotes.

Standardize instead on the hammer, this can never happen. Which is the principle virtue of C.

C++ is probably the worst language ever devised to throw into a room full of monkeys. Many of the people who hate C++ most strongly have an underlying distrustful view of their peers as unwashed monkeys completely lacking in prudence, judgment, or impulse control.

There are situations where C++ simply should not be used, in much the same way that surgery in an African aid hospital lacking electricity and hot water is not your preferred medical option. Under sterile conditions, with doctors you trust, the pros and cons of C++ balance out quite differently.

I've been trying to put this sentiment into words for a long time. In development teams where dog-eat-dog survivalism holds sway (us against the world, me against my teammates, managers against the staff) C++ can only play out in the worst possible way.

Armed with hammers instead (the C language), the tragedy of the commons can't degenerate nearly so far. The virtue of C is that you don't have to like or respect everyone else you work with, which is no small virtue given human is what it is.

Re:wake me up in 1998

[Jugalator]

So you mean this means nothing to the millions of C++ programmers out there? Standard compliance on the by far most prominent OS tend to be a big deal, even if it's coming late. I very much agree with the "better late than never" saying here. If I wouldn't, that would mean I'd be pleased with an old non-compliant Visual C++ 6 compiler, which I would definitely not be.