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First Look At the ACID3 Browser Test

ddanier writes "Now that all major browsers have mastered the ACID2 test (at least in some preview versions), work on ACID3 has begun. The new test will focus on ECMAScript, DOM Level 3, Media Queries, and data: URLs. 100 tests will be put into functions each returning either true or false depending on the result of the test. The current preview of ACID3 is still missing 16 tests."

41 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. From the summary: by u-bend · · Score: 5, Funny

    Te new test... Shouldn't that be Teh new test...?
    --
    u-bend
    1. Re:From the summary: by explosivejared · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, no, no... As anyone can clearly see, that Te is an acronym for test engineering. So get off kdawson's back. We should appreciate his masterful skill at creating what's on the surface a fairly obvious typo, but in reality is a clever reference to the field that the article discusse.

      --
      I got a catholic block.
    2. Re:From the summary: by RobBebop · · Score: 4, Funny

      a clever reference to the field that the article discusse.

      discourse in social choice using selective spelling excuses?

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    3. Re:From the summary: by ShatteredArm · · Score: 5, Funny

      You only saw "Te" because your browser rendered it incorrectly.

  2. Re:Please don't Slashdot it ! by Thornburg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can't we acid test the ACID Test server?

    If it can't hold up, maybe it needs some work... :-)

  3. I bet some devs are really pissed now by Daimanta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Finally, the bigger browsers are ACID2 compatible now. But suddenly those fuckers release a new ACID test. Now everybody's standard incompatible again. Let's see who succesfully implements ACID3 first.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
    1. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by cyfer2000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just tested, Opera 9.5Beta and Firefox 3 Beta3pre are pretty impressive.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
    2. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by tulmad · · Score: 4, Informative

      Firefox 2.0.0.10 fails the test
      Camino 1.0.3 crashes when starting the test
      Safari 2.0.4 doesn't even get started. It says I need to enable JavaScript, which is enabled.

      --
      "In case of emergency, break glass. Scream. Bleed to death."
    3. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by Bozzio · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Passing the ACID2 Test doesn't imply standard compliance. It just means the browsers implement a certain subset of the standards correctly (or effectively correctly).

      The ACID3 test won't be a test for standards compliance either. The way I see it it's just a tool to motivate developers to work TOWARDS standards compliance.

      The ACID3 test should, therefore, not be seen as a new set of standards. It's just a different subset of standards.

      --
      I just pooped your party.
    4. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by dvice_null · · Score: 4, Informative

      ACID2 and ACID3 tests don't test if browsers are standard compatible. They only test some features. To get better overview of the standards supports, try this page:
      http://www.webdevout.net/browser-support-summary?IE7=on&FX2=on&OP9=on&uas=CUSTOM

    5. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by cyfer2000 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Opera 9.5Beta and Firefox Beta3pre failed too. Just FYI.

      --
      There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
    6. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, it isn't.

      Which is why the GP shouldn't be modded as "Insightful."

      The ACID Tests are meant to test certain parts of the proposed standards.

      Passing the Test doesn't imply standards compliance.
      BUT
      Standards compliances DOES imply passing the tests.

    7. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by ben+kohler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Finally, the bigger browsers are ACID2 compatible now. But suddenly those fuckers release a new ACID test. Now everybody's standard incompatible again. Let's see who succesfully implements ACID3 first. these aren't new standards, just a new test that sheds some light on how standards-incompatible our beloved browsers still are
    8. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by paulpach · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is an easy to reproduce set of bugs someone else found on their browser.

      I would be glad to receive bug reports with an easy to use test case. It saves me the trouble of determining if it is a bug or not, coming up with a test case, the pain of communicating back and forth with the customer trying to find out what they are doing and how the bug is being triggered, etc. Also, this test suite will improve compatibility with other browsers so it will reduce bug reports in the long run.

      Why the heck would they be pissed?

    9. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by gsnedders · · Score: 3, Informative

      The ACID Tests are meant to test certain parts of the proposed standards.

      Everything in the ACID3 test is at an implementable stage (look at Anne's blog post in the summary (i.e., RTFA)), and has been since 2004.

    10. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by stewby18 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Firefox 2.0.0.10 fails the test
      > Camino 1.0.3 crashes when starting the test
      > Safari 2.0.4 doesn't even get started.

      Those aren't the current versions of any of those browsers--not even close in the case of Camino and Safari--so that's not a terribly interesting test list.

    11. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by Dak+RIT · · Score: 3, Informative

      Safari 3 is available for both Tiger and Leopard. The 10.4.11 update includes Safari 3.

    12. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      AFAIK, the purpose of the ACID tests were basically to demonstrate a specific set of rendering bugs, supposedly bugs chosen because they were common complaints of web developers. So the purpose wasn't to test standards compliance, but to give browser developers a target to hit in order to help web developers with some of their more common problems.

    13. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But it didn't really give any indication on what was actually going wrong. You get this smiley face, or some messed up rendering of one, and you're supposed to guess at what's not working right. I would like it better if they had a lot of HTML+CSS in ways it would generally be used, with an image beside it of what it should look like. Don't give me any smiley face junk. That tells neither the developers or users what does and doesn't work.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    14. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by jimbojw · · Score: 4, Informative

      After prompting me if I wanted to open empty.txt, it segfaulted my Konqueror with this backtrace:

      Using host libthread_db library "/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libthread_db.so.1".
      [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
      [New Thread -1232832304 (LWP 8079)]
      [KCrash handler]
      #6 0xb609a9a1 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libkhtml.so.4
      #7 0xb5f325d4 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libkhtml.so.4
      #8 0x081e1f38 in ?? ()
      #9 0xbfcde5a4 in ?? ()
      #10 0xbfcde588 in ?? ()
      #11 0xb60fe4fd in DOM::NodeFilter::acceptNode () from /usr/lib/libkhtml.so.4
      Backtrace stopped: frame did not save the PC


      I think we have a zeroday on our hands boys!

    15. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by kestasjk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You should see the channel9 interview with some of the IE8 team which worked on the ACID2 test. The standard is documented in a huge book, and the ACID tests test any number of them all in one document.

      It's hard enough to write one of these tests (have you seen their source code?!), let alone write it in such a way that when it fails it presents a clear message explaining why it isn't rendering correctly and giving helpful hints to the rendering engine developers.

      --
      // MD_Update(&m,buf,j);
    16. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by hixie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      We write those tests too, they're called test suites and if you look at my site you'll find literally hundreds if not thousands of them:

            http://hixie.ch/tests/adhoc/

      The Acid tests are easier for the less technically inclined to get a hold of. In practice, the browser vendors take Acid tests and turn them into small tests of the kind you describe before fixing them. For Acid2, I was the one who did a number of those small tests for Opera (I worked for Opera at the time) -- you can see them here:

            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera001.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera002.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera003.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera004.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera005.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera006.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera007.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera008.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera009.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera010.html
            http://www.hixie.ch/tests/evil/acid/002/opera011.html

      They're not as exciting as the smiley face, so they don't get the media's attention in the same way.

    17. Re:I bet some devs are really pissed now by x_MeRLiN_x · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Do you really think that their test would be so widely used if it didn't use such a novel method to display the results?

  4. Various Scores by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Final scores of course are subject to change on the final test:

    • Firefox 3 beta 2 @ Windows XP: 62%*
    • Internet Explorer 7 @ Windows XP: Dear God... you need to try it yourself. Viewing the generated source is needed to see the result is 24%
    • Opera 9.5 build 9721 @ Windows XP: 65%
    • lynx and elinks @ Windows XP: No JavaScript support. :(
    • Opera 9.3 @ Wii: 61%
    • Opera 8.5 @ Nintendo DS: 1%

    * - script takes long enough to run that browser prompts you to kill it.

    1. Re:Various Scores by mzs · · Score: 4, Informative

      Safari 3.0.3 on Mac OS X 10.5.1 does 50%. It does not have the little colored squares as in the reference though.

    2. Re:Various Scores by Laebshade · · Score: 4, Informative

      lynx and elinks @ Windows XP: No JavaScript support. :(

      I don't know what versions you're using, but at least for elinks (and links), they both support javascript. Just has to be compiled in.

      eix elinks
      * www-client/elinks
                Available versions: 0.11.2 0.11.2-r1 0.11.3 {X bittorrent bzip2 debug finger ftp gopher gpm guile idn ipv6 javascript lua nls nntp perl ruby ssl unicode zlib}
                Homepage: http://elinks.or.cz/
                Description: Advanced and well-established text-mode web browser

      eix ^links$
      [I] www-client/links
                Available versions: (2) 2.1_pre26 2.1_pre28-r1
                      {X directfb fbcon gpm javascript jpeg livecd png sdl ssl svga tiff unicode}
                Installed versions: 2.1_pre28-r1(2)(21:18:19 11/07/07)(javascript ssl tiff unicode -X -directfb -fbcon -gpm -jpeg -livecd -png -sdl -svga)
                Homepage: http://links.twibright.com/
                Description: links is a fast lightweight text and graphic web-browser

      So while they do support javascript, they don't support iframes, and the test uses 3 of those.

    3. Re:Various Scores by Dak+RIT · · Score: 3, Informative

      Safari 3.0.4 on Windows using WebKit-r29380 (today's nightly build), Safari scores a 70/100.

  5. Konqi 3.5.8 crashes, Firefox 2.0.11 fails at 59... by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Safari 3.0.4 (Windows) hangs at 60, Internet Explorer 7.0.5730.11 messes up so badly the result can't be read...

    The test looks interesting, for sure. And it's going to raise the game for standards compliance!

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  6. Firefox 3 Beta 2 (Windows) gets to 62 by Simon+Brooke · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... and looks somewhat like the reference image...

    Opera 9.2.4 (Windows) reaches 55 (but looks horrible)...

    Firefox 3 looks like the best shot at it so far.

    --
    I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
  7. Where is the reference image from? by Aaron+Isotton · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Something I always wanted to know (applies to the older Acid tests, too): how do they render the reference image? Is someone creating them by hand? How do we know no mistake was made when creating the reference image?

    1. Re:Where is the reference image from? by patio11 · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's created by an advanced, custom-built browser which, for certain input, correctly renders a perfectly standards-compliant reference image. Just don't ask to use the browser on any other input.

    2. Re:Where is the reference image from? by dpilot · · Score: 2

      I'm glad I don't have mod points, at the moment.

      I don't know if you're trying to be Funny(sarcastic) or Informative.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    3. Re:Where is the reference image from? by thue · · Score: 5, Interesting

      How do we know no mistake was made when creating the reference image?

      You don't

      I remember an article by the Apple guy who made ACID2 work on Safari (I think this was the first browser to make it work). One of the steps to get it working was to fix a bug in the test, when he couldn't make the reference result fit with what the test HTML said.

    4. Re:Where is the reference image from? by gsnedders · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, it was David Hyatt who was working on getting Saf to pass (and got it to be the first browser to pass in any build, and the first to have a generally available release (i.e., a non-development build, even if public) -- the latter being the only thing that truly counts for passing the test).

      http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2005_04.html#008011 details the bug (in this case, it was the test itself that was wrong -- not the reference). The reference rendering for Acid3 is likely correct as the actual rendering isn't overly complex (the complexity is in the ECMAScript and DOM support), though with the complexity of some tests there could easily be bugs in the test again.

  8. Re:Swell, but misses the point by roggg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It was pointed out by Dykstra i think, that tests can reveal the presence of errors, but never their absence. So testing is in some sense a pointless pursuit. I got your missing the point right here. It's not necessary to prove the absence of errors. Developers use the presence of errors (and knowledge of those errors) to direct efforts at improving products. In what sense is discovering errors a pointless pursuit?
  9. IE6 IS 100% OF THE STANDARDS!!!!1111 by nitio · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, for IE6 it reports 100% of the standards as I can prove here! In your face Firefox!

    --
    http://stoploudness.org/
  10. Re:So.... by Arimus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Firefox is a major browser, however the version which passes ACID2 is Firefox 3, I think the first build which passed was around this time last year so either go with the development release (FF3 is currently in Beta).

    --
    --- Users are like bacteria -> Each one causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally gives up and dies.
  11. ECMAScript, DOM Level 3 by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2, Informative

    Excellent. These two, especially, need to be tightened up (and in some cases, fixed) across the browsers.

  12. Not quite a new "subset" ... by davide+marney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Acid2 tests a particular interpretation of how the standards should be implemented.

    --
    "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
  13. Re:Swell, but misses the point by bunratty · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That would be pointless. If browsers are getting mere hacks to display the specific acid test page correctly, the jig will be up when web developers start using the features tested by that acid test and discover that the features don't really work. I suspect that no browsers have been tweaked to pass certain tests, as that tweaking wouldn't fool web developers for any significant period of time.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  14. Since when is vaporware acceptable as proof? by jbn-o · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now that all major browsers have mastered the ACID2 test (at least in some preview versions) [...]

    When Firefox makes news on this there are daily builds to test, source code to inspect and compile. One can see the progress first-hand.

    There is no build of Microsoft Internet Explorer 8 to test. You are accepting something unverifiable as reality and thus talking about these browsers as if they're all on the same level. This suggests a new low: believing the illegal monopolist who tells you that their vaporware behaves in accordance with published publicly-implementable standards.