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Geist's Fair Copyright for Canada Principles

An anonymous reader writes "Canadian law prof Michael Geist has been leading the charge against a Canadian DMCA including the creation of a Fair Copyright for Canada Facebook group that now has more than 38,000 members. Having delayed the legislation, he now outlines what Canadians should be fighting for — more flexible fair dealing, a balanced implementation of the WIPO Internet treaties, an ISP safe harbor, and a modernized backup copy provision."

43 comments

  1. it's german by User+956 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Canadian law prof Michael Geist has been leading the charge against a Canadian DMCA including the creation of a Fair Copyright for Canada Facebook group that now has more than 38,000 members.

    With Mr. Geist leading the discussion, I'm sure it's very spirited. The RIAA doesn't have a ghost of a chance.

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:it's german by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 5, Informative

      We do things differently in Canada.

      Instead of trying to tilt one way or the other, we try our best to come up with compromises that suit all legitimate parties and society as a whole. Instead of saying, "w3 sld 2 d/l L R mp3s n war3z!" the rational amongst us will come up with some points that we can all agree on. What this does is force the other side to compromise as well. If the CCRA won't budge, then we can realize that they're full of back bacon and they can leave parliament hill.

      We've always had an opposition party and called it Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. The idea is that you are supposed to be critical of your government - and that you never have your loyalty to the country (or the crown) questioned. This gives us a lot of options when the government messes up. If my local conservative MP doesn't want to listen, I can call Keith Martin's office and tell them all about it. They'll follow up. If the Industry Minister proposes crappy legislation, I can call the Industry Critics and send them a portfolio on the details.

      And yes, I got your ghost joke.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    2. Re:it's german by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We've always had an opposition party and called it Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition. The idea is that you are supposed to be critical of your government - and that you never have your loyalty to the country (or the crown) questioned.

      That only works in a minority government as the opposition can in theory throw the government into an election. And the senate, well when was the last time they actually really stopped a government bill?

      Fortunately Canada has a minority government right now, for if not this would not even make the news and be rubber stamped. Even if the opposition opposed there would be absolutely nothing they could do about it but make idle noise. The parliamentary system is marginal democracy, one could look at majority governments in parliament as a 5 year dictatorship with no separation of legislative and administrative branches.

      Now for the punch line. Just like the US, and more openly so, need a little election moneys? Do a CRIA or RIAA a favor? No problem. Even former PMs ADMIT openly to taking $300,000 in CASH envelopes and in the safety deposit box it goes. Undeclared taxation moneys or bribe, does not mater a lawyer should know better. Don't get me started on "offshore" Martin.

      Canadians have a very much false impression of how their government really works.

    3. Re:it's german by I_Voter · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Beardo the Bearded wrote:

      We do things differently in Canada. Instead of trying to tilt one way or the other, we try our best to come up with compromises ..

      -------------

      IMO One of the reasons this is less common in the USA, at least in political discourse, is that we lack "real" political parties. Political parties used to be organizations that could field politicians that reflected the organizations interests, and would carry the organizations name on the ballot. By requiring, (in most states) party nomination by public primaries, the state can specify the requirements for ballot access for the primary elections. A modern US "party" candidate is just an individual that competes in a single election district. By registering with the state as a member of the party of their choice - just like any voter who wishes to vote in primary elections. They are individually free to choose to run under labels such as Republican, Democrat, or any other party that has achieved ballot status! There is no enforceable party platform

      One important benefit of "real" political parties is their ability to facilitate political deals between different interests in society. A political party in a two-party system is a gigantic coalition of many different interests. Lacking an enforceable party platform - the other forces that decide which of these interests will get rewarded ( after the votes are counted ) are not very clear in either major party.

      My short polemic text on the subject -

      Do You Know What a Political Party is?

      http://web.newsguy.com/politicaleconomy/DefinePoliticalParty.html

    4. Re:it's german by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reasons we're not that interested in what Mulroney did are:
      1. We all know that he's a corrupt asshole.
      2. We got tired of his shit after Meech Lake.
      3. If it's not "Hey, Chinboy's going to jail", we just don't care.

      Our politicians aren't noble, not by any stretch. I wouldn't go far enough to call them 5-year dictatorships. After all, they have to get re-elected, and we'll remember.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    5. Re:it's german by billcopc · · Score: 1

      lol offshore Martin. That guy was bad news long before he ever read his first budget on the air. It takes one hell of a freak to just stand there emotion-less, while being accused of the greatest swindle our country has seen.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  2. Why Is This In Politics???!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The Slashdot FAQ clearly states the politics section is for "news relevant to United States government politics. ".

    There is absolutely no relevance of this story to the US government or US politics whatsoever.

    It's a Canadian issue, and it doesn't belong in this section. The editors need to follow their own rules.

    1. Re:Why Is This In Politics???!!! by Comboman · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There is absolutely no relevance of this story to the US government or US politics whatsoever.

      US companies funding US lobby groups to pressure the Canadian government into passing US-style DCMA laws? I think it's very relevant.

      --
      Support Right To Repair Legislation.
    2. Re:Why Is This In Politics???!!! by fictionpuss · · Score: 2, Funny

      Would you care to state upon whose behalf you are outraged? Of course not, you're an Anonymous Coward, or **AA. Just for that I'm going to download 5 more albums.

    3. Re:Why Is This In Politics???!!! by eiapoce · · Score: 1

      Of course this is relevant to the USA! Canada with 1/8 of the population, harsh climate and less resources has been putting the USA in shame all these years.

      US Governement already have to bear the differences in welfare and crime rate. They could just get have additional problems in trying to justify better civil liberties and absence of RIAA/MPAA messing with people lifes.

      Mexico from this point of view is such a better neighbour :)

    4. Re:Why Is This In Politics???!!! by umghhh · · Score: 1

      The whole statement goes like this:
      "This section is for news relevant to United States government politics.
      It was created primarily to cover the 2004 US Presidential Election, but today exists for occasional stories that fit the bill."

      As we can see the part you quoted is just historical.

    5. Re:Why Is This In Politics???!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical Americans... who cares how your foreign policy/corrupt lobby groups try to enforce a DMCA like bill, just so American interests can start suing college students and old ladies who dont even know how to use the internet...

  3. Because by Sylos · · Score: 0, Troll

    Canada is a state-in-denial...

    --
    'Number-memorizing Chinese people.'-Anon
  4. 38,000 Canadians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    that's like what, 32,000 Americans?

    38,000 frantic Canadians standing around saying "eh? take off ya DMCA hoser". Adorably cute. I could just kiss Canadians.

    1. Re:38,000 Canadians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      more like 40,000 Americans, probably more like 50,000 by 2009.

      Unless you are talking in terms of weight. In that case you are still wrong. No nation could hope to match the American's average girth.

    2. Re:38,000 Canadians? by Geof · · Score: 5, Interesting

      that's like what, 32,000 Americans?

      The U.S. has roughly ten times our population, so in terms of political significance it's more like 380,000 Americans. At one point we had about two people joining every minute. Imagine if every 3 seconds an American signed up to protest the DMCA.

    3. Re:38,000 Canadians? by gravis777 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's do it. Someone start this petition, and lets get the word out.

    4. Re:38,000 Canadians? by p0tat03 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, 38,000 Canadians is, as of right now, is approx. 38,950 Americans. Enjoy our plummeting currency! :)

    5. Re:38,000 Canadians? by Philodoxx · · Score: 1

      Funny, "eh? take off ya DMCA hoser" is apparently working a whole lot better than whatever Americans are doing.

      --
      Oh, a lesson in history from Mr. I'm my own grandpa.
  5. State sanctioned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I want the audiance to make note that he solves the copyright issues via society sanctioned means. Not by hiding behind a geo/content-hiding P2P client in the safety of one's basement. Talk about mass rebellion all you want, it's people like him who will do far more to make things balanced (as opposed to the lopsided solution piracy presents).

    1. Re:State sanctioned. by OECD · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Talk about mass rebellion all you want, it's people like him who will do far more to make things balanced (as opposed to the lopsided solution piracy presents).

      While I wish him well, he's really just trying to maintain/regain ground. Ultimately, the upcoming generation that refuses to engage in the ridiculous game of "pretend" that the distribution agencies insist we all play (as in, pretend these bits are really hard to copy) will do more. It'll just take a while.

      "Piracy" (sharing) isn't a "solution", it's just a description of reality. The sooner everyone accepts that, the better we'll all be.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  6. the new camcord legislation is costing ME money by CodeMunch · · Score: 5, Informative
    First: Thank you Mr. Geist for being a vocal representative for us.

    Several months ago there was an amendment to our copyright legislation (bill C-59) that made the "camcording" a criminal act....mostly due to the "rampant piracy" [insert blame canada here] reported by us corporations.

    I couldn't find a date when that legislation was passed (introduced June 1, 2007 - does that mean passed as well?) but since then, only TWO people have been charged and the second was just a couple days ago.

    Thank you MPAA (and canadian derivatives) for wasting my fucking tax dollars to prop up your business model. It's doing a swell job catching all the bad camcords going to the U.S.

    Thank you Bev Oda and Maxime Bernier for representing foreign interests. traitors.

    The previous Michael Geist /. link: http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/12/1150200

    1. Re:the new camcord legislation is costing ME money by RattFink · · Score: 4, Informative

      (introduced June 1, 2007 - does that mean passed as well?)

      The bill received Royal Assent on the 22nd of June making it law after that.
      --
      "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say." - Marshall McLuhan
    2. Re:the new camcord legislation is costing ME money by RealGrouchy · · Score: 1

      but since then, only TWO people have been charged and the second was just a couple days ago. Don't you see how well it has been deterring rampant piracy?

      This and the successful Bear Patrol show that the Conservative Government are able to produce real Made-In-Canada results. And this is a minority Government. Imagine how much more they'll be able to go to protect us if they had a majority Government!

      - RG>
      --
      Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
    3. Re:the new camcord legislation is costing ME money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't usually disagree wrt new laws sucking, but in this case, it makes sense. Unless you are given explicit permission, it should not be legal to camcord a movie in a theatre. That it ever was legal was not good, and even if nobody were ever charged, clearing up idiosyncrasies like this is what law is for.

      Better they "waste" money making laws that make sense than laws that are inherently bad.

    4. Re:the new camcord legislation is costing ME money by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      Thank you for saving me the effort. Good post.

      Traitors is a very good word for those two. Should be dealt with accordingly.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    5. Re:the new camcord legislation is costing ME money by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Several months ago there was an amendment to our copyright legislation (bill C-59) that made the "camcording" a criminal act....mostly due to the "rampant piracy" [insert blame canada here] reported by us corporations.
      I've had several discussions with my lawyer over supper about that, and his opinion is that it is a totally bullshit law, passed just so the whiny asshole south of the border would shut the fuck up, because one cannot make a criminal act an action that does not harm the public welfare.

      Camcording a movie is certainly not hurting the public welfare; it does infringe on intellectual property, but it cannot be defined as a crime, especially that the law specifically mentions that in order to be a crime, one has to camcord the movie ***WITHOUT*** the permission of the theater manager.

      Judges will take a very dim view of a law that lowers them to the level of a movie house manager...

  7. the new camcord legislation is costing me posts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Thank you MPAA (and canadian derivatives) for wasting my fucking tax dollars to prop up your business model."

    Yeah, well it's not like camcording was going to do it.

    "It's doing a swell job catching all the bad camcords going to the U.S."

    Considering all the tin ears that listen to MP3s. I can certainly see people consuming bad camcordings.

  8. What you should do - VERY IMPORTANT by JonMartin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    A handful of us met with our MP this very afternoon (Laurie Hawn - Conservative for Edmonton Centre). We talked about our concerns and what happens next for about an hour.


    The bill will be introduced sometime in the next month or so. It is now considered, thanks to the efforts of everyone who called and wrote in December, a high profile bill.

    A bill goes through 3 readings in the House of Commons. After the third it is passed to the Senate. After the first and second reading the bill may be sent to committee for hearings and modification. Now here is where it gets tricky. After the second reading the committee cannot make major changes to the bill, so if the proposed copyright legislation is really broken (and by all indications it will be) it needs to go to committee after first reading where it can be completely overhauled if need be.

    But it is the discretion of the House leaders (each party) whether it goes to committee after the first reading.

    So you all need to write the Leader, House Leader, and Industry critic of the opposition parties to tell them this bill must go to committee after the first reading so we have an opportunity for hearings and major revisions. Send copies to Stephen Harper, Jim Prentice (Minister of Industry), Josée Verner (Heritage), Peter Van Loan (Government House Leader), James Rajotte (head of the Industry committee) and your local MP while you are at it.

    This might sound like a lot of work, but because of the minority government this is probably the best time for this legislation. Remember, committees are made up proportional to seats in the House, so the Government has to bargain with the opposition there too.

    --
    Serve Gonk.
    1. Re:What you should do - VERY IMPORTANT by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget that this government is on it's last miles; opposition parties have made well known the fact that they are lusting for blood, and will topple the government at the first opportunity.

  9. Re:Why Is This In the US???!!! by MeNeXT · · Score: 1

    Copyright is no longer about content creators but owners and extending ownership. It's not about the artist but the label who OWNS the artist.

    --
    DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
  10. The most pernicious effect. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The most pernicious effect of an eventual DMCA-like law would be on DVD regioning.

    By the terms of the DVD-CCA, properly-licensed DVD players **CANNOT** play DVDs from outside the region they are assigned. Of course, everyone has region-free DVD players, but it is absolutefuckingly sure that such players **WILL** be outlawed, as well as the DECSS software everyone loves and hates.

    However, such a law will bit parliament big-time in the arse: Canada is a country of immigrants, much more so than the US, as there is no "Canadian melting pot" as immigrants are encouraged to retain their cultures*. Now, you are going to tell indians that they are not allowed to watch movies from India? Tell the Chinese that they are not allowed to watch movies from China? Tell the French that they are not allowed to watch movies from France? Tell english that they are not allowed to watch British movies? but they should only watch what Hollywood decides they should watch?

    Like, yeah, this is going to go right well down with the plebe...

    Better yet, in our Constitution is a Charter of Rights which does not gives a shit about commercial interests trampling the individual freedom of, say, watching a movie of one's choice.

    * An old ploy to minorize the french by having immigrants consider them like yet another ethnic group (never mind that the french actually founded Canada as we know it almost half a millenium ago -- my ancestors were well established here when the pilgrims landed at Plymouth!).

  11. Mandatory: "The DMC, Eh?" by rewinn · · Score: 1

    Seriously: congrats to our Canadian cousins for facing this issue. Could it be that a parliamentary system makes it easier to address issues other than the two-party whores-race?

  12. P2P by thedefender · · Score: 1

    Please do note that Unless you live in Canada where citizens are shielded from P2P copyright lawsuits, because the pay an extra fee on their CD, DVD purchases to do so, then downloading some P2P files may put you at risk for a civil lawsuit in any other country. These lawsuits usually take the form of class-action suits, filed against groups of users who are logged as blatantly copying and distributing copyrighted materials. Recently, the MPAA and RIAA, along with the governments of England and Australia, took several thousand users to court, demanding that they pay thousands of dollars in copyright infringement penalties. " It is also illegal for DMCA to invade the privacy of Canadians, to harass, obstruct their downloads with fakes torrents. Attention the Federal Minister of Industries, Consumer affairs, Jim Prentice Jan 7, 2007 Reference: MediaDefender MediaDefender , a notorious anti piracy gang working for the MPAA, RIAA and several independent media production companies, who mow had launched even their very own video upload service called "miivi.com". The sole purpose also of the site was to trap people into uploading supposedly copyrighted material, and bust them for doing so. Now the overall the manner in which they did any of this clearly was illegal firstly too in Canada. It has been at least 3 months since the many news media has reported the false invasion of our home computers, invasion of our home privacy, sabatoage of our Internet bittorrent download usage by MediaDefender and so what good have you now personally done about any of in this time now too? About this big culprit who are seriously responsible for our costly related big interent band width waste usage and that you all should firstly should go after MediaDefender , or Overpeer, who now in the last year with their thousands of computers have generated phony torrents. Now did you have them MediaDefender liable for 'Disrupting Normal Services' by uploading fake torrents and rightfully prosecuted, for 'Disrupting Normal Internet Services' in Canada by their now uploading their fake torrents? Downloading torrents is not illegal in Canada for any Canadians now too but sabotaging our right to do so and their invasion of our personal privacy is. RSVPas to what good have you now personally done about any of in this time now too? http://torrentfreak.com/mediadefender-emails-leaked-070915/ PS In Canada Peer to peer P2P Internet usage has become very popular and is a main reasons many person have a high speed Internet.. but a high speed Internet does not necessary insure you get adequate speeds on your torrent downloads. Also insure that when you get an Internet Service Provider do first check their actual speeds delivered to you, should be at least 6 megs for a high speed system . see http://groups.msn.com/CanadaToday5/internetspeedtest.msnw or search engine - "Internet speed test", and insure that you have unlimited download capability preferably, and that they do not cap the downloads in anyway.. A simple tip to insure optimize download capabilities is to cap your bit torrent's program uploads capabilities to about 60 kbs, to avoid it from plugging up, and do restrict to about 8 torrents downloads too? Trial and error here will let you know what is best for you. How to improve your downloads using a bit torrent program http://bittorrent-list.blogspot.com/

  13. Re:some stats regarding Canadian internet and p2p by CHRONOSS2008 · · Score: 1

    we have about 24 million internet accounts. Sept 2005 - 5.4 million were logged into p2p systems at same time March 2006 - 9.8 Million Thats last time they wanted it public but it is said round circles it could be as many as 2/3 using p2p. The internet levy proposed would raise about 5$ per internet account. 120million/month or about 1.44Billion now think about times 8 for the USA.... Then add Europe..... Asia.... So this really isn't about money after all else they'd push this. It is about control or DRM, just a differant kind of DRM. ALSO note the minister regarding this has now publicly said he is against a DMCA style law citing the SONY case as perfect example of why we cannot have it here. However instead he went on about TPM ( Technological Protection Measures ) as though that too is good. TPM is just a new buzz word for DRM. ANYTHING ENDING IN "M" MUST BE BAD. This Gov't won't last to see it through anyways, everyones gearing for an election. There budget won't live through life and also remember the bilion htere giving forestry supposedly in this budget, we'd not have to do that if Harper had not signed the pact giving us 4 billion when the next day in court we won the last appeal to get all 5 billion in the softwood lumber deal. LOOK where the housing market is now and where its going in the USA. We could have used the billion, it makes no diff to them down there , all mucked for a long time.