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IBM Responds to Overtime Lawsuits With 15% Salary Cut

bcmbyte writes "IBM in recent months has been hit with lawsuits filed on behalf of thousands of U.S. employees who claim the company illegally classified them as exempt from federal and state overtime statutes in order to avoid paying them extra whenever they worked more than 40 hours per week. The good news for those workers is that IBM now plans to grant them so-called "non-exempt" status so they can collect overtime pay. The bad news: IBM will cut their base salaries by 15% to make up the difference."

18 of 620 comments (clear)

  1. Typical. by beavis88 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This, folks, is a good example of why labor unions are still around. Not that it's going to help any in this case...

    1. Re:Typical. by mattwarden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How can you make the assessment that IBM is in the wrong by introducing the 15% reduction without knowing the salary range in question?

    2. Re:Typical. by GNU(slash)Nickname · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I work for a Union. You work for the union, or you are just a union member?

      They happily negotiated less than 3% for cost of living increase for the last contract. Unfortunately that was nearly erased by them raising the union dues 2.5%. Your union dues went up by 2.5% of your gross salary? Really?
    3. Re:Typical. by captbob2002 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not happy with how your union is run - then you should volunteer to lead it or run for union office. Not happy with the contract? Then get on the negotiating team for the next contract. Not happy about how comp-time is being used - get it changed in the next contract.

      The union is only as good as the members that care enough to get involved. If all you do is sit back and complain you get the union you deserve.

  2. It's stories like this... by The+Famous+Druid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That remind me why I stopped being an employee, and became a contractor.

    The bad thing about being a contractor is I only get paid for the time I work (no sick leave, public holidays, annual leave etc)

    The good thing about being a contractor is I get paid for _every_ hour I work.

    Strangely enough, once I was working on a strictly per-hour basis, the boss found far fewer 'emergencies' that required me to work all weekend.

    --
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur (anything said in Latin sounds important)
    1. Re:It's stories like this... by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The bad thing about being a contractor is I only get paid for the time I work (no sick leave, public holidays, annual leave etc)

      The worst day working for yourself is better than the best day I've ever had as an employee...ever. There is a lot of detail work necessary: Invoicing, collecting on the invoices, insurance, license fees, expense tracking, quarterly taxes. And there are liability issues to consider. But as more and more employers keep pushing responsibility and accounting issues down to the lower ranks, the amount of paperwork really isn't that different. Many employers expect you to process all that paperwork on your own time and travel on your own time. Plus a lot of them are getting dickishly intrusive monitoring and spying on their employees.

      Besides, cubicles suck ass.

      IBM gets caught breaking the rules and responds by cutting salaries. Nice. Just keep pulling stunts like that and your turn over will remain painfully high.

      Strangely enough, once I was working on a strictly per-hour basis, the boss found far fewer 'emergencies' that required me to work all weekend.

      Funny how that works, isn't it? Want me to work all weekend? No problemo! Just sign this invoice...right there...here's a pen.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    2. Re:It's stories like this... by BVis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed, the US situation is different than in a lot of others because we stubbornly insist on coupling access to health care with employment. For some reason, the prevailing attitude seems to be that the unemployed deserve whatever they get, even if that 'whatever' is a slow agonizing death from a treatable cancer.

      I'm sure someone will soon reply to this insisting that I'm a socialist and I'd like to see everyone's taxes go up as high as possible. Neither is true. IMHO we can provide every American with access to health care universally without increasing taxes. This might sound impossible, but work with me here: The unemployed/underemployed don't stop needing health care just because of their work situation. Hospitals can't refuse to treat people based on their insurance coverage (or lack thereof). The taxpayer is already paying for their health care through programs like Medicaid. Making health care universal only requires repurposing of tax revenue, not increasing it.

      I'm sure someone will respond to that by pointing to the Canadian system, and how the quality of coverage is perceived as low as compared to the US system, where you get as much health care as you can afford. The rich don't need more health care than the poor; as much as they'd like to insist that it isn't the case, we're all the same on the inside, despite someone's bank acount being larger than someone else's. If we all receive the same level of care, and it's perceived as poor, then we can work to improve it for EVERYONE, not just the rich.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
  3. Penny wise and pound foolish by schwit1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    15%? That's cheap compared to the damage from the loss of morale and confidence in management.

    1. Re:Penny wise and pound foolish by avandesande · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We are entering a hard recession. By next year the employees morale will be high because they have a job.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  4. Re:Free market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And how exactly do you live if you don't work? Property is owned by the government so you must always pay taxes or you loose "your" land. Food, power, transportation? Yes, why don't you show us all how you can live without working aside from taking up residence in a shopping cart on the corner. Also, don't the employees who do the work deserve some of the benefit? It seems corporate executives want to make multi-million dollar bonuses based on the work of others without sharing. Work hard so the boss can buy his 16 year old daughter a $65,000 car! Look at the striking writers guild in Hollywood. Are they wrong for wanting a piece of what they create or should they allow the executives who do nothing to take all the money for themselves? How about all these mergers? Can anyone compete against a mega-corp that owns politicians and writes the laws themselves? If you think the market is "free" then you are living in another world.

  5. Re:Free Market by navygeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wouldn't be surprised to see a (relative) handful of people quit over this, but I'd bet good money the majority will stay put - despite the 'insult' the paycut hands out. The reason - take a good look at the US economy. There isn't a lot of upward mobility it the numbers, economists are worried about a recession - and that fear usually turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy; at least to a point. Things aren't looking so good right now, people are worried. The Housing sector is the number one place not to be stuck working right now, tech isn't far behind.

  6. Re:Again. by kripkenstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Radioshack settled a similar lawsuit with their store managers several years ago, and lowered their base salaries to offset the new overtime payouts. I've heard about lots of this sort of thing going on in smaller corporations, that you wouldn't hear about in the news. Fact is, the 'industry norm' is in many cases to not pay overtime for these sorts of jobs, even though people constantly work beyond the normal hours (these aren't 9 to 5 jobs!). As compensation, the base salaries are typically quite high. But it turns out that this norm is somewhat at odds with certain laws regarding overtime, and employees in many cases demand what they think they deserve.

    The end result is exactly what IBM did. Suddenly starting to pay for overtime means IBM is raising effective salaries by 10-20% or more, so naturally IBM lowers base salaries. The end result is that we are exactly where we started - people work the same hours, and get the same pay.

    Well, at least on average; for individuals who work more or who work less, there will be some change. There are also motivational issues - if you are paid for overtime, you have less incentive to work efficiently (one reason why hi-tech managers, and many workers, don't like paid overtime and prefer to raise the base pay). Overall, it is hard to say that the change is for the better. The old salaries and norms were already 'working' - they were comparable to industry norms, were arrived at after years of haggling, corrections, and so forth, and most importantly people knew what they were getting when they signed on.
  7. Re:Hmm by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a short term monetary gain (in the form of a settlement), for a net loss in wage security

    Depending on the job, wage security is often less of a concern than schedule security, ie the possibility that the boss will tell you you're working 80 hours next week. Now he has to account for extra overtime over the usual in his budget, and that's a heck of a deterrent.

    Each may very well be more important to different people. As another respondent said, this probably is best for the quality employees who always find themselves overcommitted and working hard, and maybe less good for clockwatchers.

  8. Re:Some reference materials by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, this is great business and I love it. I am considered an exempt employee, so I am salaried with no OT; however, I love seeing corporations telling their employees to fuck off when they pull shit like this. IBM said, "You want to be hourly, fine here is your old pay minus 15%." Now, do not cry too much for these people. Assume their old salary was equivalent to a rate of $x per hour. Their new rate would be about $(x * .85).

    Previously, their annual salary would've been approximately 2000*x. It is now about 1700*x. Assume overtime is time and a half, they would get paid 1.275*x for each hour of OT. This means they would need to work about 236 hours of OT a year, or about 4.5 hours per week. If they were working so much OT that they were willing to sue, then this should be easy to make up and in the end they are making more money, since they weren't getting paid OT before.

    Their only other option would've been to unionize; however, if these are programming and/or engineering jobs, you can bet IBM would've outsourced them in a second to save the money and the hassle of dealing with a workers union. Also, don't think there aren't plenty of engineers in the US who are willing to "scab". Most the engineers I know (myself included) absolutely abhor unions.

  9. Re:They need a Union by ktappe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unions provide practically nothing of value to companies
    They aren't meant to provide value to companies, they are meant to provide value to employees. They HURT companies but they tend to hurt companies that deserve hurting because they've already hurt the employees so much the workers chose to unionize. Perhaps it's not the original poster who doesn't know what the fsck he's talking about....
    --
    "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  10. Re:Seriously by paulbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not bad. Not bad until you got to the part about housing.

    US housing costs are dramatically cheaper (on average) than those in western Europe. The primary reason for the difference is that housing costs in the US reflect the fact that land on which to build is cheap, so the cost of buying an existing house has to compete with the fact that you could, if you were willing, simply build a new one. This option is generally unimaginable for inhabitants of most of Europe, where land prices make this option absurd. As a result, house/apartment/rental costs there are not competing with the "i'll do it myself" option, and can climb to levels contained only by median salaries.

    Your inevitablity stance on a global economy is also a little sad. Things like the "global economy" don't just happen. They happen because a specific (if large) set of vested interests arrange/push for it to happen. In this case, owners of capital who stand to see huge benefits from the free flow of their property, have pushed hard for it while telling everyone that the whole world will benefit from it. They have resisted similarly free flow of labor, while relying on the fact that moving labor around is much harder than moving capital. It was never inevitable - its the result of power and money seeking more power and more money, just like so much of human history has been.

  11. Re:Hmm by Mongoose+Disciple · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You seem to have come to the erroneous conclusion that the people who work the most hours are the most valuable to the company or accomplish the most in a week. You're not alone in this, but it's still not correct.

    Don't get me wrong, there are super-producers out there who get a ton done in a 40 hour week and then work another 40 hours every week. (Although I'd argue that this isn't really sustainable long term.) But for every one of those, there's at least one person who works a ton overtime and makes a lot of drama about what a hard worker they are, but doesn't actually get shit done, and there's also at least one person who works hard and busts out more than their fair weekly share of work but manages to do it within 40 hours.

    A lot of company cultures reward the high hours low output employee over the 40 hours high output employee, and it's their loss when those people leave.

  12. Re:sounds about fair by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No harm done -- the employees just have to keep doing regular overtime and they get the same salary they used to. If they do less, they get less money and if the boss deamnds more, they get more pay.


    Wrong. Harm done. Sure, you keep working overtime and your take-home remains about the same. Except when you take a vacation or go on maternity or other medical leave, and suddenly your income drops 15% for the duration. Also, the company's annual pension payout to you drops 15% because that amount is based on your base salary, not overtime.