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Motley Fool Writes Off Microsoft

The Vista disaster has caught Wall Street's attention before but I've never seen the popular press understand the issues like this argument in the Motley Fool. The opposing argument is a weak statement of faith, essentially "as it was in the beginning is now and forever shall be." "You don't need to watch the 'I'm a Mac, I'm a PC' commercials to see that Microsoft is taking a beating. You see it in the company's financials where its online unit, incredibly, is operating at a loss; overheating Xbox 360 consoles find the company taking a huge warranty hit for a system losing market share to the Wii; and the upgrade wave of its flagship operating system has been more of a ripple than a tsunami. That last point is important. This was supposed to be Microsoft's final feast, the major last hurrah for its Windows Vista operating entry and its Office 2007 suite of applications before the inevitable embrace of cheaper open source operating systems and Web-based apps... In fact, even Microsoft will tell you that its fortunes peaked several months ago."

19 of 404 comments (clear)

  1. In other news by El+Cabri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    MSFT shares are up 3% today after another strong rise yesterday, after announcing their financial results and outlook.

    1. Re:In other news by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      MSFT shares are up 3% today after another strong rise yesterday, after announcing their financial results and outlook. Yeah, I noticed that on MSN Money when I was running at the gym last night. The reason they cited that was strong Vista sales. That's not what I've heard on Slashdot.

      Now I know he's a Microsoft robot but on the otherside of this issue is Ed Bott who cites adoption rates. Of course there are other factors like Vista being forced down people's throats.

      You have to admit, the stories we're hearing just don't add up. People can spin this like Vista's a flop or success. I'm guessing it's par for the course and Microsoft is doing fine. My company will be shoving Vista onto my workstation in a year and it's hear to stay.

      Do I like Vista? Not at all. That still doesn't mean I should live under a rock in denial.
      --
      My work here is dung.
    2. Re:In other news by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't it not uncommon for businesses to skip entire versions of windows? It is not not not uncommon at all! :)

      My company was not in love with '98, so made the jump quickly to 2000, but then stuck 2000 on every machine that came in the door until they had trouble making new hardware work (laptops, for instance, just remained XP). Last time I checked, they were still blocking SP2 - though I've been working remotely for 2 years so that might not still be the case. The loaner PC that I use when I visit is still 2000. I suspect they will be similarly slow to adopt Vista, and may skip it altogether if MS releases another OS quickly enough.

      Then again, my company still runs Exchange 5.5 and just tells everyone to clench during daylight savings :)

      Personally, I won't upgrade my PC to Vista, but if I happen to buy one with it pre-installed I won't remove it, either. I've set up some Vista machines for people and played with it quite a bit now - it's really not so bad. It just has some new irritations, and some things are flat-out impossible to do (or at least not that I could figure out with the help of Google). But on the whole it is stable and not really much different day-to-day than XP.
      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    3. Re:In other news by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful
      It takes real journalistic skill, though, to turn what's obviously a point-counterpoint piece into "Motley Fool Writes Off Microsoft".

      It doesn't take a genius, it only takes an editor who will post a story from a Twitter.

    4. Re:In other news by sm62704 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The reason they cited that was strong Vista sales

      Actually Vista is selling like hotcakes. Dell is buying lots of copies, Gateway is buying lots of copies, Sony is buying lots of copies, OEMs are buying lots of copies.

      The only people who aren't buying Vista are businesses that aren't making computers, home computer owners, upgraders, and everybody else.

      -mcgrew

      (no journal for YOU! You;ll have to make do with reruns. Happy DT.)

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    5. Re:In other news by orclevegam · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Really? Has Microsoft really made back 5 years of development effort from Vista sales? I find it hard to believe with most sales coming from bundled (i.e. low profit) type sales. Most of Microsoft's sales come from the OEMs who buy licenses in bulk. Even if they can't offload them onto end consumers MS still made the money because the OEM fronted it. What MS does lose with poor Vista uptake is the leverage a large install base can give them, so rather then using pre-installed apps on Vista to gain a foothold they have to use "requires vista" on apps as a carrot to force Vista onto people. It's all about leverage, and unfortunately MS is holding 90% of the sticks (god, that works on so many levels). Our only real hope at this point is that they hurry up and release Windows 7, and we can go ahead and stick Vista on the same shelf that ME is using to collect dust.
      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    6. Re:In other news by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      MSFT is selling Vista for 2-4 times what XP went for.

      Not true at all. My corporate licensing rates on a per-license basis show Vista Business coming in at exactly the same price point as WinXP. I don't know who you're getting your pricing from, but they're taking you for a huge ride if you're paying 400% more for Vista than you did for XP. Heck, even the retail pricing is similar.

      On the other hand, if you've got some sort of ideological axe to grind against MS, you might've tried comparing something silly like XP Home with Vista Ultimate in order to get your ridiculous price differential. I'd like to believe you're not one of the slobbering, frothing, anti-MS zealots Slashdot is so rabidly famous for, so I'm going to assume you're just getting bum pricing from whatever vendor you're using. Given your comments, though, I'm thinking that's not the case with you, is it?

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
  2. And yet... by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...despite Vista's problems, Microsoft announced a 79% rise in profits today. I guess they can survive one OS screw-up.

    Here's hoping HD DVD's troubles means that they'll remove all the "secure path" BS from Windows 7. They only did it to placate Hollywood, and it's a major reason why Vista had developmental problems. (Note, they'd have had to do it too if they were supporting Blu-ray instead - the point though is that I'd like to see Microsoft throw a tantrum and remove a "feature" they should never have added in the first place.)

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:And yet... by bizitch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right

      They survived Windows Me and they already announced (leaked) the next OS is on the way sooner than thought

      They also have more money than God - So they will adopt, adapt and improve (and steal, and "innovate" etc etc)

      --
      ---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
    2. Re:And yet... by MBGMorden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They also have more money than God Major point there. No company is permanent or invincible, but Microsoft is the type of behemoth that can bleed off small ammounts of money for DECADES without folding.

      They are still turning a (sizable) profit. They not only need to start taking a loss, but they need to either start taking a MAJOR loss each quarter (doesn't look likely), or, we gotta wait it out. As long as they're managed just well enough that their losses are minor, I doubt we'll see Microsoft go away in the foreseeable future.

      Still, that doesn't mean that they need maintain their current control for that long. I'd love to see Microsoft in 15 years, putting out their OS that only has about 25-30% market share, and shipping Office for Linux (and naturally Mac, but they already do that so no big change there). Xbox would likely be scrapped by then (admittedly though, the 360 is the only current gen system I own, but I bought it pretty much exclusively for Mass Effect).

      If Linux could just get that level of commercial support, I think it would be a major victory. I'll admit that, though not the only things, having WoW and MS Office available are major factors in my preference of MacOS over Linux right now. Linux is ideologically the better way to make software, and I hope to goodness that within the next few years it gets the functionality, polish, and commercial support to be functionally the better of the two as well. Microsoft has already proven that Windows is steering towards crippleware, and Apple is likely not far behind.
      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  3. Interesting by Paranatural · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While I can see this as a mark of the beginning of the end for Microsoft I really wouldn't write them off just yet. They still have a metric butt-ton of market share, and are still overall profitable. Should they manage to stop the hemorrhaging of cash with the XBox (Which I can easily foresee) and come up with a good reply to Vista (Like they did with Windows ME/Then Windows 2000), then I can see them rebounding quick.

    However, I also see the general public becoming more and more sophisticated when it comes to things like Operating Systems and understanding that there are indeed options out there. And with knowledge of options will come people exercising those options.

    In other words there's a up and down roller coaster ride ahead but this ride may be coming to a full and complete stop.

  4. Vista == PS/2 Micro Channel by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 4, Insightful
    IBM came out with the PS/2 and the Micro Channel bus. They fenced it with patents and wanted to charge high fees for people developing hardware and such for Micro Channel. IBM didn't want to get burned like they had before with the PC clones.

    But people failed to beat a path to the PS/2; they waited, and used things like EISA until PCI came along and was roughly as good as Micro Channel. IBM finally learned that they didn't own the PC market anymore.

    IBM's still around but isn't a colossus astride the computing industry. Microsoft has now discovered that the competition is "good enough" and the Microsoft name isn't enough to force people to follow along with whatever they say. Like IBM, MS isn't going away... but they'll be one option among many in a few years, not the single dominant giant.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    1. Re:Vista == PS/2 Micro Channel by canUbeleiveIT · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Like IBM, MS isn't going away... but they'll be one option among many in a few years, not the single dominant giant.

      As much as I'd like to believe this, I see no indication that it will actually happen.

      In my mind, it is software, not hardware, that locks people into Windows. I am a VAR who mostly services businesses too small to have an IT staff, and it seems that every sector has an industry-specific software that only runs on Windows. Examples from my customers include:
      -Collision Repair Estimating Software
      -Accountant Software
      -Manufacturer's Representative Software
      -Dental Practice Software
      -Church Administrative Software

      It's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg dilema; developers would port to other platforms if those OSes's had more marketshare, and platforms would have more marketshare if applications were ported to to the OSes. I just can't see a short-term road out of that conundrum.

  5. Last hurrah by Malevolent+Tester · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought Vista was an interim OS between XP and Windows 7?

    --
    If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
  6. There's definitely wishful thinking in there by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But it's in the first article, not the second.

    ZOMG, people are specifying XP instead of Vista! Sure, but they're still buying Microsoft. Apple is topping out its niche appeal, and corporations are run by lawyers who hate and fear Google Docs with a cold reptilian passion.

    Wise up, nerds. Major purchasing decisions are not taken by people live with their parents in Wyoming. They are taken by grown ups who have mortgages and orthodentist bills to pay, and those people recommend, and will continue to recommend, Microsoft because nobody ever got sacked for doing so.

    The upcoming recession may see a few smaller outfits switch to freeware in the hope of chiselling a few dollars off the budget, but that's probably a sign that they're doomed, and so wouldn't have been buying M$ one way or the other.

    Still, I'm swimming against the tide of opinion here, if not of history, so feel free to get excited about the prospect of the Evil Empire toppling any day now. Let's compare notes in 5 years and we can spot where you went wrong.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  7. Bad Analogy by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Vista is not Micro Channel. Vista is Windows ME.

  8. Meh by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not about the money. Want to make more? Just run the printing presses faster. Money hasn't been reliable enough to be used as a measure of performance for nearly a decade now.

    Really it's about influence, and that's what Microsoft are losing, have been for several years.

    --
    Deleted
  9. Re:Most interesting part of article... by Serapth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What you are missing is Microsoft started paying out annual dividends starting in........... 2004! Plus some fairly aggressive stock buyback.

    Frankly, their cash reserves have dwindled because simply put, sitting on 60 billion worth of cash is just dumb.

  10. Re:He's right, you know. by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nope.

    As long as you have the ability to maintain your software, it will
    never wear out. You can always train someone else to be the
    maintenance monkey. Admittedly, this only works for software where
    you have the source.

    This does NOT necessarily imply "Free Software".

    Saavy companies get the source to important applications so they
    can maintain those systems if necessary. Software like that can
    (and has) last longer than most of us here have been alive.

    Also, the world (or technology) isn't as dynamic as a lot of people would like to think.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.