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Telco Immunity Goes To Full Debate
Dr. Eggman notes an Ars Technica analysis of the firefight that is the current Congressional debate over granting retrospective immunity to telecoms that helped the NSA spy on citizens without warrants. A Republican cloture motion, which would have blocked any further attempts to remove the retroactive immunity provision, has failed. This controversial portion of the Senate intelligence committee surveillance bill may now be examined in full debate. At the same time, a second cloture motion — filed by Congressional Democrats in an effort to force immediate vote on a 30 day extension to the Protect America Act — also failed to pass. The Protect America Act has been criticized for broadly expanding federal surveillance powers while diminishing judicial oversight. While the failure of this second cloture motion means the Protect America Act might expire, a vote tomorrow on a similar motion in the House will likely bring the issue back into the Senate in time. It seems, according to the article, that both parties feel that imminent expiration of the Protect America Act is a disaster for intelligence gathering, and each side blames the other as progress grinds to a halt."
Ex post facto (Latin for "after the fact") means that a person cannot be prosecuted for violating laws passed after he/she committed an act. So if I were to call Congress a bunch of asshats, and 3 days later Congress were to pass a law banning all mockery of that very august body, I still could not be prosecuted. (And all of that could happen, because most members of Congress are, as we all know, asshats.) But ex post facto says nothing about being granted immunity after the fact. Basically, there is nothing in the constitution that prevents the government from selling out to corporations, even retrospectively. Damned asshats.
Uhh, yeah, I'll grant that on Iran (with the students and young moderates) and maybe even China, but North Korea???
One cant stop wondering if it will stop halfwaysIt'll come back around. Look at some of the laws that got put on the books is the US and UK during WW2. Hell, look at some of our actions during that time. Hell, look at some of what happened after the war.
Point being, that in spite of all of that, it eventually came back around towards freedom and liberty. I see no reason why it won't do so again as long as we continue to fight for our rights.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Unless you think that warrantless wiretaps are a good idea, the rest of this bill is pretty damn bad as well.
The immunity is from civil suits, but the presidential pardon is for criminal prosecution/conviction.
Agreed. Actually, it is not uncommon to pass laws that decriminalize past acts.
Here in Illinois we had just such a situation a few years ago. http://www.reason.com/news/show/36162.html
To summarize, a homeowner shot a burglar that was in his home. The homeowner was not charged with the shooting as it was deemed to be in self-defense, but was charged for violating the town's ban on handguns. A major bruhaha ensued.
The state legislature passed a law giving people charged with violating a local government's gun laws an affirmative defense if they were defending themselves or someone else when they were caught with the gun. The town was forced to drop the charges and return the guns. No one has challenged the law on constitutional grounds, yet the anti-gunners definitely would if they thought they would win.
To be honest, I think the law is bad public policy. Not 'cause I am against gun ownership (I own several), but because it makes a mockery of the idea of law and order. My view is the same for the telco immunity issue in this topic. Personally, I believe Illinois should prohibit local gun ordinances (called "municipal preemption") and do any regulation at the State level, but that is off-topic.
Bottom line, it is not uncommon to decriminalize things that occurred in the past, and I do not believe there is anything unconstitutional about it. Sometimes it is a good thing, as it could correct bad laws. In this case of telco immunity it is bad IMNSHO. Seems kind of moot in this case, as the gov't is using the State Privilege pretty effectively to shut these lawsuits down. Very sad.
The only athletic sport I ever mastered was backgammon - Douglas William Jerrold