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What the MPAA Still Isn't Telling Us

Scott Jaschik writes "An essay at the Inside Higher Ed site looks at the fallout from the MPAA's admission that its statistics on college student downloading were seriously wrong. Among the questions: What is the MPAA still holding back? Why isn't the MPAA changing its position on legislation? 'Perhaps the MPAA's press release acknowledging its "300 percent error" will set the stage for new, less rancorous private and public discussions about P2P piracy. Colleges and universities respect copyright; colleges and universities are engaged in serious efforts to inform and educate students about the importance of copyright. And MPAA and RIAA officials ... should acknowledge, respect and strongly support the continuing efforts of campus officials to address copyright issues, in part by ending the public posturing that portrays colleges and universities as dens of digital piracy.'"

29 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. Why download bootleg movies? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If there's one thing I'd like to know about the P2P controversy, it's this: why would people bother to waste bandwidth and disk space downloading bootleg copies of most of the garbage that the MPAA (not to mention RIAA member labels) attempts to foist upon the public? If anything, the MPAA should be paying people to watch garbage like Meet the Spartans and Untraceable.

    1. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by garcia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If anything, the MPAA should be paying people to watch garbage like Meet the Spartans and Untraceable.

      Well, this tells me one of three things:

      1. You don't watch movies at all, including those you just listed, and you are instead just spouting off about two recent movies because you read about what someone else said via some media source.

      2. You do go to the theater and watch movies and saw those two which you call "trash" and you are supporting the MPAA's campaign to subvert media outlets, higher educational institutions and families.

      3. You don't pay for these movies and instead pirate them and are just as much of a torrenter as anyone else that downloads stuff.

      So, which is it? You can't have your cake and eat it to you know.

    2. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK, you got me. It's number 2, but I didn't see those two. I saw Cloverfield instead. You're right: I want to see the MPAA contribute to the United States' march towards tyranny. The sooner we get there, the sooner we can get over it and go back to being the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    3. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by GuidoW · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The sooner we get there, the sooner we can get over it and go back to being the land of the free and the home of the brave.

      You mean just like they did in China and North Korea?

      --
      If it's so secret, then how come I've never heard of it?
    4. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you are correct, 6 years ago when I bought my set I should have consulted a medium and a witch to determine what the outcome would be. Nothing predicts technology like chicken blood, coffee grounds and eggs mixed with the bone of a wild cat.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are many AMAZING movies that have come out recently and have shown up in theaters. Thank You for Smoking, I Heart Huckabees, The Fountain, Eastern Promises, The Departed, Collateral, The Bourne Trilogy, Breach, The Kingdom, The Good Shepard, Lady In the Water, The Last King of Scotland, The Science of Sleep, Hotel Rwanda, Blake Snake Moan, A Scanner Darkly...

      All movies that have come out recently, all of them big-name movies, all of them rated by the MPAA, and all of them amazing.

      Not everything out there is crap. You just have to look a little.

    6. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Even if you are of average intelligence (which I assume that you are higher, considering where we are), the constant barrage of anti-copying and zoning "technology" should have made you weary on what to buy, regardless of chicken bones and coffee grounds.

      You know, past performance determines future behavior and all..

      --
    7. Re:Why download bootleg movies? by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What I would love to see is some of the torrent sites (Or other P2P sites) Poll people downing movies as to why they didn't go see it in theaters or buy it on dvd. And publish them so the MPAA might start to realize just because a movie was downloaded 50K times it doesn't mean they lost 50K sales. a Poll might look like this.

      a) I am a Collage Student and my choice was not eat for an entire day so I could pay to see this movie.. or Download a crappy version off the internet.
      b) All the reviews said the movie was bad.. All my friends that saw the movie said it was bad.. I am curious if it was really that bad.. but not curious enough to shell out the price of a ticket.
      c) I'd pay to see this movie.. But not 10$ not 5$ maybe a couple bucks..
      d) I saw all the best parts of this movie in the trailer that available free on-line.. Why do I need to pay to see the crappy parts of the movie now?

      --
      Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
  2. Why don't people understand? by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And MPAA and RIAA officials ... should acknowledge, respect and strongly support the continuing efforts of campus officials to address copyright issues, in part by ending the public posturing that portrays colleges and universities as dens of digital piracy.

    The MPAA and RIAA aren't interested in anything except changing the publics' perception of their "plight". By recognizing their flawed research and statistics it would mean that their campaign to flood the eyes and ears of the uninformed via the media outlets, who are hungry for trash, would possibly end.

    They are currently winning the war over parents and the majority of educational administrators who are worried that those they have jurisdiction over are doing things that someone told them was theft. They don't want to have others look poorly on them and they are going to spend an inordinate amount of time ensuring that they are doing everything they can to stop this horrible threat to our youth! Unfortunately, that comes at a serious cost in an arena that is notoriously short on funding and which should honestly have a lot more important shit to worry about.

    What is the most tiring is that the media outlet continue to eat what the MPAA/RIAA are feeding them and the parents don't sit down to think about anything other than how to "talk to their kids about drugs" errr, I mean "stealing"! I guess because many of us who are either just becoming parents or aren't planning for kids for at least a few more years have sat through the majority of the Nancy-period and the bullshit anti-drug messages, we are more immune to being bombarded with this crap. Unfortunately, the rest of them are all caving to the media pressure. "Don't let this happen to you!"

    I wish that more higher education institutions had the ability to pull off what Harvard did but the financial funding just isn't there to fight it in the short term but instead, wasting resources and funds over the long term is. The MPAA/RIAA knows exactly what they are doing and how to exploit those they are attacking and it sucks, bad.

    1. Re:Why don't people understand? by Rogerborg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OTOH, you could view it as them playing the long game. They know that their business model is shot to hell, and that today there's nothing that they can do about it because general purpose computing devices ultimately treat all bits equally, so they've lost their cartel monopoly on high quality distribution.

      However, look at what they're doing in response: sowing FUD, reframing the debate, and buying politicians. I believe that their long term goal is to put the genie back in the bottle and outlaw general purpose computing devices that treat arbitrary bits as copyable by default. Perhaps it's not a credible goal, perhaps its even risible, but bear in mind that they've already got Redmond in their corner, so it's not completely beyond the pale.

      Don't write off the ??AAs. They are rich, powerful, they consider that they they enjoy a right to be profitable, and they are utterly without ethics or effective oversight. I suspect that eventually we'll be relying on Europe to prevent a Intel/Microsoft/??AA super-cartel from forcing a computing monoculture on us where arbitrary bits are uncopyable by default.

      Laugh if you like, but first consider who the next President is likely to be, and her unabashed view that Washington actually should be run by lobbyists and corporate interests.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  3. This caused more piracy by acoustix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If anything, the MPAA's constant announcements that rabid P2P use among high school and college students was a major concern only fueled the fire for more kids to pirate movies.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
  4. Please think of the recording artists by biscon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Detective: This is the home of Lars Ulrich, the drummer for Metallica. [they approach a bush] Look. There's Lars now, sitting by his pool. [he's seen sitting on the edge of a chaise longue, his face in his hands, softly sobbing]

    Kyle: What's the matter with him?

    Detective: This month he was hoping to have a gold-plated shark tank bar installed right next to the pool, but thanks to people downloading his music for free, he must now wait a few months before he can afford it. [a close-up of Lars sobbing] Come. There's more. [leads them away. Next seen is a small airport at night] Here's Britney Spears' private jet. Notice anything? [a shot of Britney boarding a plane, then stopping to look at it before entering] Britney used to have a Gulfstream IV. Now she's had to sell it and get a Gulfstream III because people like you chose to download her music for free. [Britney gives a heavy sigh and goes inside.] The Gulfstream III doesn't even have a remote control for its surround-sound DVD system. Still think downloading music for free is no big deal?

    Kyle: We... didn't realize what we were doing, eh...

    Detective: That is the folly of man. Now look in this window. [they are at another mansion, and they look inside a picture window] Here you see the loving family of Master P. [He's shown tossing a basketball to his wife while his kid tries to catch it] Next week is his son's birthday and, all he's ever wanted was an island in French Polynesia. [his mom lowers the ball and gives it to the boy, who smiles, picks it up and drops it. It rolls away and he goes after it]

    Kyle: So, he's gonna get it, right?

    Detective: I see an island without an owner. If things keep going the way they are, the child will not get his tropical paradise.

    Stan: [apologetically] We're sorry! We'll, we'll never download music for free again!

    Detective: [somberly, dramatically] Man must learn to think of these horrible outcomes before he acts selfishly or else... I fear... recording artists will be forever doomed to a life of only semi-luxury.

    1. Re:Please think of the recording artists by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You're buying into exactly what the RIAA wants you to think - that musicians make lots of money from selling albums. They don't. Musicians make their money from touring, from playing to audiences for money. The people who make lots of money from selling albums are the record companies.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Please think of the recording artists by dreamchaser · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Which is exactly why 'artists' like Metallica and U2 shouldn't help support that fallacy.

    3. Re:Please think of the recording artists by Noren · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's not QUITE true. The small number of artists who have been popular for a long time, with consistent sales, actually do make quite a bit of money from album sales. This is because they were in a position to renegotiate favorably with recording studios after the lengthy initial contract.

      Which is why long established bands like Metallica and U2 are the only musicians who care enough about piracy to speak out on it- they are the rare exceptions of musicians who actually are getting paid for album sales.

      See this Courney Love essay. (Yes, Courtney Love wrote an informative essay on the topic. Who knew?)

  5. Ummm by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Shouldn't it be the 200% error? The number they gave was 300% of the new one, but they were wrong by 200% in the same way that 110 is 110% of 100 but only 10% wrong.

    --
    I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    1. Re:Ummm by JCSoRocks · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah... people aren't so sharp when it comes to percentages and numbers. An old manager at my work once said that productivity had increased 200%, not realizing that a 200% increase was in fact equivalent to a 3-fold increase. What she meant was 100%, or that people were being twice as productive. But, the numbers were all BS anyway, so people just nodded and smiled and laughed on the inside.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
  6. The Price Is Right with Host Dan Glickman! by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Funny

    Unfortunately, the MPAA has yet to release the actual reports that generated either the 44 percent or 15 percent claims about the role of college students in digital piracy; the public data are limited to PowerPoint graphics in PDF format on the association's web site. MPAA Secretary: I'm almost done authoring the report on college file sharing piracy ruining the movie industry, sir. I just need to know what number the researchers found in their study.
    Dan Glickman: Researchers? We're an organization of lawyers, not scienticians! We make the numbers, not find them. But it can't be too high or it will be unrealistic and people will ask questions but the higher it is, the more blame we can put on it.
    MPAA Secretary: 50 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Too high, go lower.
    MPAA Secretary: 30 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Higher.
    MPAA Secretary: 40 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Higher.
    MPAA Secretary: 45 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Lower.
    MPAA Secretary: 41 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Higher.
    MPAA Secretary: 42 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Higher.
    MPAA Secretary: 43 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Higher.
    MPAA Secretary: 44 percent?
    Dan Glickman: Ding ding ding!
    MPAA Secretary: But sir, that's a lot of money, what if they ask questions?
    Dan Glickman: Oh, grow up, it's in PowerPoint! PowerPoint is never wrong. Rocket scientists don't even question what's in PowerPoint! What is your problem?

    In all seriousness though, I've drawn up solutions on green engineering paper in the middle of meetings with pencil and everytime my boss hated it. But if I went back to my desk and made a box with a computer pointing to another box full of fecal matter in PowerPoint, management gobbles that right up without asking any questions.
    --
    My work here is dung.
  7. A great man once said... by MrNemesis · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

    Ooops, sorry, insta-Godwin.

    But we see the same tactics from the RIAA all the time - persistently referring to copyright infringement as stealing (maybe I should redefine "RIAA executive" as "sex offender"? I'd love to be able to change the meanings of legally applicable terms to suit my preference), persistently telling us that "piracy" loses a magical $X billion from the economy every year, that it supports terrorism/drug dealers/the mafia/anyone else seen as "bad". Lies. More lies. TFA (a good, polite rant) is just a catalogue of their lies and, occasionally spin-tastic back-pedalling. And yet such an organisation is not only allowed to exist, but to get in bed with the government too? And now they want to get their greasy paws on every privately owned internet connection in the US?

    Sorry, no. I think my insta-Godwin was half-warranted in the case of these capricious fucks.

    --
    Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
  8. why do people think this matters? by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    people will trade movies online. for free. without any limitations. they just will, get used to it. no matter what laws anyone passes. end of story, there really is no alternative to that future

    movies will still be made for $100 million. the studios will just make their money only in the theatres. there just will be no more online/ dvd/ vhs aftermarket

    oh yeah, remember the vhs? that the studios fought tooth and nail in the 1980s because it was going to kill their movie business? which they now count as a huge cash cow? and which they now vigorously defend? pffft. yeah, like those guys understand a damn thing about what they are talking about

    people announced the death of the moviehouse in the 1950s. why? television. this was two decades before "Jaws" and the birth of the summer blockbuster. some genius prognostication there, huh? same with those predicting the internet, and the hdtv, and all of that will kill the theatre. uh, no. history repeating itself. the theatre business is secure, really

    studios will still make lots of money, people will still jam movie houses, no matter what a bunch of asocial slashdotters in their parent's basement say. watching anime on a 17 inch monitor by yourself in your basement is NOT a threat to people going to the movies on dates, in families, in groups, to see the blockbuster first, etc. no matter what technological advance is made. seriously

    hollywood: you're just going to have to wean yourself of the dvd aftermarket. there will be nothing online to match that cash cow, and the internet is going to kill that cash cow. go ahead and pass a bunch of laws, pay off some congressman, step up in enforcement. doesn't matter in the least. that cash cow is going bye bye, nothing is going to replace it. deal with that, nothing is changing that fact

    just put yourself in your 1980s "the aftermarket is going to kill the movie business!" point of view, you'll get used to the change

    morons

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  9. How much is really "Internet Piracy?" by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    According to this Ars Technica article ( http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060505-6761.html ), the $6.1 billion that the MPAA claims is lost to piracy is a highly inflated number. Ok, I'll pause while everyone says "Well, DUH!".... ... done? ... ok, good. Let's proceed.

    Apparently, "bootlegging" costs them $2.4 million. This is typically "hard piracy" or a guy on a street corner selling a copied DVD for $5. Let's give the MPAA this figure.

    The next portion is $1.4 billion "lost" to illegal copying. Now this isn't someone putting Star Wars up on a P2P network. This is someone taking their Star Wars DVD and making a backup copy of it. Apparently, the MPAA feels that you should pay for backup copies and not doing so is costing them money. This is likely just a load of horse manure, but let's leave it be for now because the next one is what really interests me.

    Finally, they claim $2.3 billion in losses to "internet piracy". Since they claim that most of the losses are overseas (say, 40%) and 15% of the US Internet piracy happens on campuses, that's $138 million ($2.3 Billion * 0.4 * 0.15). Now, they also are claiming that each P2P copy downloaded is a lost sale. I disagree with that and think that the real "lost sales" figures are far lower. I'm willing to grant them a compromise, though, and assume that a one in three downloaded copies is a lost sale. This takes the losses figure down to $46 million. Finally, some of those "lost sales" would have been used copies, rentals, or other legal "reduced cost" methods. So let's assume that this takes reduces their revenue by 20% (again, being generous)*. This takes their Internet Piracy loss down to just under $37 million.

    So for $37 million lost annually, the MPAA wants severe Federal laws that would deny students a college education if someone else on the campus pirates a movie?

    * Ok, I pulled a lot of the numbers out of my behind, but so did the MPAA. At least my numbers are likely to be closer to reality.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  10. Redeeming features by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 2, Informative

    Sure, and Benito Mussolini got the trains to run on time. One doesn't earn forgiveness for a mountain of fuckups by doing a few things right.

  11. Re:I have been looking. by Pojut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Movies are (sadly) much like how videogames have become. For every great piece of work, there are ten horrible pieces of work lining up behind it. Once you are able to recognize crap from a distance, however, you tend to stop noticing it.

  12. Try Eastern Europe. by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually, I was thinking of Eastern Europe. Poland, the Czech and Slovakian Republics, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Belarus, etc. I'd suggest East Germany as well, but the reunified Germany has also slid into statism. Rome wasn't built in a day, and it wasn't brought down in a year. It takes time to build a tyranny, most of the groundwork is laid behind the scenes, and it takes time to tear one down as well. Hell, it took 70 years to bring down the Soviet Union.

    1. Re:Try Eastern Europe. by GuidoW · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Meaning if the US slips into tyranny now, not one of us is going to see the end of it...

      --
      If it's so secret, then how come I've never heard of it?
    2. Re:Try Eastern Europe. by Torvaun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But if we keep putting it off, our children may be the ones to never know freedom. Besides, it took so long to tear down the Soviet Union because the citizens that destroyed it had never known a free Russia. We have seen how things ought to be, and therefore will fight hardest to regain it. If nothing else, we can lay the groundwork for the fight against tyranny.

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
  13. There's Method Here by Vengance+Daemon · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against . . . We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt."

    Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

  14. A great man being George Creel? by IvyKing · · Score: 2, Informative
    What a lot of people don't realize is that Hitler's Minister of Propaganda had taken lessons from the Woodrow Wilson administration, especially George Creel. There were some incredible lies told to bolster support for WW1 in the US which were revealed in the 1920's, which was a major reason why the US public did not want to get involved in another European war.


    No insta-Godwin for you...

  15. Re:There's no recovery from tyranny. by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    All we can do is either keep our heads down until the current tyranny destroys itself and try to pick up the pieces

    Well, Rome had ~500 years of tyranny, followed by ~1000 years of a split and crumbling empire with poor living conditions, rampant disease, hunger, and incredibly short lifespans. Soo... guess what? You're dead either way. Better to take a stand while you still can than wafting on a hope that "Rome will be a Republic once again! Someday. Soon. Maybe."

    Of course, your rather dire attitude towards the US places your objectivity about the current political situation in question. I can guarantee you that things are not quite as bad as you're making them out to be. If the US crumbles, it will be more through ambivalence and poor maintenance than tyranny.