The Gray Areas of Search-Engine Law

pasquafa writes "Here is a very smart article on the future of search engine legal controversies. Let's just say that the Google book search is just the start of the problems! Google thinks it's a newspaper and wants First Amendment protection to do whatever it pleases."

Comments

Google 'Transparency'

[ps236]

Whilst I agree mostly with Google wanting to keep their search engine ranking algorithms secret, I think it's too easy for people to get dumped at the bottom of the rankings without a clue why.

IMV, it'd be a good thing for someone to be able to pay a (non-trivial) amount of money (say $500) to Google and have them give general feedback on why your page is ranked low - eg 'too many repeated words' or 'irrelevant words' or 'too many crosslinks to bad sites' or whatever, rather than the current scenario of you just being left in the dark with a company which can't make any sales because Google's arbitrary ranking system has taken a dislike to your site.

Being able to pay to have Google re-evaluate your site earlier would be a good thing as well. (Not to be able to increase your ranking, but if you found a problem which you have since fixed).

JM2P

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[Anonymous Coward]

If you really care about your site ranking, hire an SEO. They handle enough pages they'll know what works and what doesn't. If you depend on the listing for your business, maybe you should be buying an ad instead of depending purely on your search rank.

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[Red Pointy Tail]

Do Hollywood studios have the right to question Ebert on his methodology? No!- if you get a crappy review, too bad. All these is protected First Amendment free speech. I don't see why Google should be required by law to publish how they rank.

Some other forms of ranking (like university rankings) disclose their methodology because it gives them more credibility, not because the law requires them to do so. It is to their own interest to do so. On the other hand, Google doesn't - for trade secrecy, and to avoid it being gamed. All these in in TFA.

Right now Google basks in its credibility - that it is the most relevant search engine around, which they achieved without needing to disclose their methodology. We trust Google's 'review' enough to not bother how it is achieved.

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[owlnation]

It's not a bad idea, but really the best solution for everyone (including Google) is for Google to have serious competition. The rest will all take care of itself.

11 years after Google appears on the scene and yet NO challengers? Lame. Search is far, far from perfect, there is room for competition.

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with SEO companies is that they often artificially inflate the actual value of sites in Google's result pages, thereby degrading the actual quality of Google's service. In any given industry/topic/category/whatever, if the top 20 sites got there because they were heavily "SEO"'d this presents a huge problem. Right now it's not too bad just yet, but since the whole SEO market/industry was coined and broke on to the scene, you can see Google's search quality degrade. Case in point, I did two searches this morning to research out a few things and was immediately bombarded by heavily "SEO"'d, rubbish sites that really had nothing to do with the keywords I was using. But because they were so heavily "SEO"'d Google thinks they are actually relevant to what I am looking for.

Other than writing clean code that search engines can spider and generating good content, there should be no need to hire SEO companies. In fact the SEO industry could be phased out if Google would go back to their roots and work on improving searching instead of trying to get into every industry known to man. Google needs competition.

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[TheLink]

I see so many people who want their sites to be the number one result on Google.

But 99.999999% of these shouldn't even be in the first page.

I bet hardly any of them can give a good reason why their site should be on the first page. They will say stupid stuff like "I want to make more money".

I don't swear often, but guess what, if that's the sort of reason they give, _I_ don't want their FUCKING sites ever appearing in my search results.

These bunch are usually the same breed as spammers - they want to make more money even (especially?) if it makes life worse for a lot of people.

You want to sell stuff? Fine. Have pages listing your products (specs and manuals would be nice if applicable) and prices AND the type of currency the prices are in (e.g. USD, EUR, GBP, AUD etc). Please have a contacts page that actually has contact details, not some stupid webform (which just makes me think you're either incompetent and/or a spammer). Please also state other important information like whether you are US only, or Texas only, what sort of payment is accepted. And please make sure that the same url doesn't keep showing completely different information - it's really annoying to see search results that appear promising, then click and get a totally different page. For example: yoursite.com/products/1423/ shouldn't show a different product the next month. Different prices maybe. If it's discontinued, mark it so, or remove it totally - don't reuse the url.

If I want to buy stuff that you sell, I want to be able to search and find you. If I'm trying to look for stuff that you don't sell, I don't want to find you.

If everyone gets to spam the results, that just makes it harder to find stuff.

After all if lots of people list stuff they don't provide just for the sake of appearing higher on the search results, that's rather annoying isn't it? Maybe even fraudulent in some cases. Shouldn't they get smacked way down for doing that?

But yeah maybe your idea isn't such a bad one. People get to pay $500, and then Google tells them "We think your site really sucks and that's why we've now moved it way below" ;).

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[Ajehals]

A reputable SEO should really only be doing what you suggest in your second paragraph, they should be making sure that you page does not contain barriers to inclusion in any given index and preferably ensure that what content you have is easily indexed. Any SEO that engages in practices that 'game' (the more common tactics being comment spam type operations and link exchanges) search engines aren't worth dealing with, primarily because you will find your site way down in the rankings or de-listed when Google, Yahoo, Microsoft et al realise what's going on.

So, no they are not evil, they may be better informed than an average web design company with regard to what to do and what not to do when it comes to a website that you would like to be indexed (all flash site with no indexable text? utterly standards un-compliant code? all your content 90% of the way down the page if you look at the source? Not a good idea.). A decent web designer should be all you need though, but then they tend to be more expensive than many of the $50 a site designers out there.

Re:Google 'Transparency'

[greenbird]

It is quite common for companies to have a working business one day, and then the next, for some unknown reason their site is now listed on page 972 of Google's results, so their business goes down the chute.

This happens because Google change some arbitrary parameter

No, this happens because your business model is idiotic and doomed to failure if it relies on advertising controlled by and provided gratis by another company. Are you going to let Google view all your trade secrets that are critical to the success of your business?

Bad summary

[Sockatume]

"Google thinks it's a newspaper"? No, the article's discussing how the courts giving Google similar protections to newspapers would influence first amendment law in general, and its use on the internet in particular. It also discusses how if the courts oblige Google to divulge personal information in the same way as credit agencies, that will also affect them. It's a very interesting article, and it does suggest that Google has a world of legal tangles ahead of them, but surely somebody could've come up with a better summary than this?

Re:Bad summary

[MightyYar]

I think the article is making some of the same mistakes that it accuses the judge of making.

When Google goes to court defending itself when it comes to algorithms, it claims neutrality.

When Google goes to court defending itself when it comes to ads, it claims the right to editorialize.

The article makes this seem like a contradiction, but it's really not. Just because there are broad analogies to newspapers, media providers, common carriers, etc that apply to Google doesn't mean that the analogies need to be extended all the way across Google's product portfolio. The fact is that Google has both editorial content, and content that is not editorialized. All they are asking is for the editorial content to be treated as other (more traditional) editorial content is treated, and for the non-editorial content to be treated as other non-editorial content is treated.

It just so happens that the New York Times also has this - the overwhelming majority of their paper is editorial content, but they also publish lists derived from algorithms, such as the "New York Times Bestseller List". Someone could sue the New York Times because they don't like the way the list is compiled, thus snubbing their book and depriving it of a lot of attention - would they win? I don't think so.

Submitter Can't Read

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are the two key parts of the article about Google being treated like a newspaper:

If courts began to treat Google and its kin as Internet-age newspapers, he says, then regulating their content--from ads to search results--would be difficult.

One case last year in North Carolina, Langdon v. Google, leaned more toward the newspaper model, giving Google, Yahoo, and MSN free-speech protection to reject any ads they deemed objectionable.

So, the newspaper analogy has nothing to do with doing with "whatever it pleases", but rather stating that if this analogy is used by the courts, then regulation of its content is difficult, and Google has the rights to reject any ads it pleases.

The former seems quite true, and the later seems very reasonable to me.

Re:Submitter Can't Read

[McGregorMortis]

Precedents and analogies are great for making the law consistent, but they will only go so far. Once in a long while, it's necessary to create new models, which may then become the source for analogies in the future. Google is probably one of these. Google isn't precisely like a newspaper, nor is it precisely like a broadcaster, or a phone-book, or a credit-reporting agency, or a common-carrier. It's a new kind of thing, called a "search-engine."

Analogies may provide some context for deciding how to treat it in law, but trying to pound the square search-engine peg into any single one of the existing round analogies will only lead to irrational and unhelpful rules.

Over time, new case-law will develop, and someday lawyers will be arguing that their next new thing is analogous to a search-engine and subject to the same freedoms and restrictions. I think Google, by doing deliberately provocative things like the Book Search, is working to accelerate that process. That's a good thing, even if the Foot-shooters and Nose-cutters Association of America doesn't see it that way.