UK Commissioner Seeks To Ban Ultrasonic Anti-Teen Device

mikesd81 points out a Times Online article that discusses the legality of the Mosquito sound device, which is used to annoy and drive off younger people with sounds that are too high-pitched for most adults to hear. We discussed how annoying this device can be a couple years ago. From Times Online: "Sir Albert Aynsley-Green, the Children's Commissioner for England appointed to represent the views of the country's 11 million children, has set up a campaign — called Buzz Off — that is calling for the Mosquito to be banned on grounds that it infringes the rights of young people. 'These devices are indiscriminate and target all children and young people, including babies, regardless of whether they are behaving or misbehaving,' Sir Al told the BBC. 'The use of measures such as these are simply demonizing children and young people, creating a dangerous and widening divide between the young and the old.'"

Comments

Re:Heh.

[MrKaos]

Yes, but I tried the same thing with Audacity's tone generator after remembering that small fact about mp3. No crunching there. Guess what? I still heard the tone.

From memory the highest frequency your sound card can generate is half the clock rate of the oscillator on your sound card, if you have a 96Khz rate card then you can probably generate frequencies up to about 48khz, if the oscillator is 44.1Khz then max of about 22.5khz. Of course that's the advertised rate, could be higher or lower slightly.

I guess I just have damn good ears, or all the loud amplified music I listened to in my youth didn't kill the high end of my hearing.

I found the same thing, though tintinitis can still affect you even if your hearing is good, well that's the way it seems with me sometimes, just be careful I love loud music too but that ringing sucks big time when it kicks in. I had a hearing check and my sensitivity was really good after many loud concerts, jams with bands, night clubs etc - I feel very lucky - I use hearing protection ALL the time now.

And one thing I did find useful, generating a high-pitched noise above human hearing (I've got a delta-1010lt connected to a PA system, it's oscillator is 50Khz) was to get my neighbors dog's to STFU. I certainly wasn't keen on disturbing the rest of my neighbors by yelling at the dogs at 1,2,3,5,6,7am. Worked a treat - even for the dogs in the next street along - and no-one was the wiser - thus avoiding unnecessary confrontation. It's amazing what can be done with a few heavy duty tweeters, an amp, and a distorting high-frequency signal source (ardour and ladspa in this case).

Beside I know heeps of kids that have high frequency ring tones so that their teachers cannot hear their mobiles ringing in class, cheeky little brats. Might be agood idea under some circumstances IF used with restraint and wisdom - not just to be obnoxious. I only used enough high frequency noise on the dogs so they would learn to keep quiet.

Re:Wow

[Builder]

I have no objection to kids playing anywhere they like.

But how do you justify the broken windows and the chronic litter?

I live in a neighborhood with similar issues, and I'll be DAMNED if I will try to understand what is happening from their side. There is NO acceptable reason for trashing a bus shelter or a DLR shelter. There is NO good reason to dump rubbish bins in the street. There is NO acceptable reason for urinating on the stairs to the train platforms.

When they decide to become part of society, I'll treat them like they deserve to be. While they're playing at Lord of the Flies, I'll treat them like the animals they are.

Re:Wow

[AIFEX]

Furthermore, in support of your argument, the UK news is consistently riddled with stories where adults who have approached such groups have been kicked to shit, or more recently to death.

No one has a problem with constructive activities or even people hanging out, but that's not what they do anymore, because people don't stop them, give an inch and they take a mile. Smashed cars, smashed windows, stabbings, gang wars, old women/men being battered to death, the list goes on.

Re:Wow

[gmack]

Except that kids aren't the only one who can hear those things. I'm 30 and I can still hear outside the "adult range". You had better believe I will be avoiding spending my income at any store that annoys me.

On a more amusing note here in Montreal they use classical music for the same purpose. Stores that don't want kids around will play it outside their shops. Pissed me off the first time heard something good and went inside to get a better listen only to discover that inside they were playing some crap radio station.

Re:Simple Principles.

[h4rm0ny]

You're absolutely right about mothers with babies. Imagine trying and trying to quieten a crying baby, all the time unaware that it's being targetted by a device you don't know is there.

Re:The Facts vs Global Media Reporting.

[RiotingPacifist]

These devices are only used to disperse gangs which have already accumulated and who are causing trouble. that's complete rubbish, these devices are used indiscriminately, i have to put up with 1 near my town hall where, the kids do not cause trouble.

They are not emitting this sound on a constant basis, and are just fired for very short periods of time as required. they do emit for short periods of time but not as required they emit for about 20mins whenever somebody moves, then thiers a 5-10 minute wait before it kicks in again, this is not as required.

As many others have said, the UK has a very serious problem with gangs of youths causing trouble, and we're not just talking a little petty crime, there have been a number of recent cases where individuals, often adults, have actually being kicked to death or stabbed by such groups. The deaths are not in public places and out side shops where these are being used so that is completly of topic. In fact if the gang had been outside a shop instead of the mans home, people would have seen the attack. Your argment is based on the fact that we have a problem with some youths (its not at all serious compaired to US), so we should punish them all. And about half a dozen times isnt often!

When people talk about the rights of children, they always think of the relatively innocent ones, the ones who are probably more like we were when we were young (and this is an image that those who are anti-Mosquito are trying to foster) but the truth of the matter is that the kids this device is being used on, have little in common with the British kids of the 80s. Defending an idea because some people deserve it is like saying because some adults are terrorists we should all be watched, it is in fact you that's attacking the liberties of the innocent! the kids of the 80s, wernt the kids of the 80s the punks that would hang around in gangs and start fights, just because you didnt go round causing trouble doesn't mean your generation is innocent!

I think the problem ultimately lies in society itself, as the rich/poor divide gets wider kids on the lower end have less and less hope. While hope cant be forced on people, something has to be done about hope! Attacking them with devices like this and stop and search just reinforces the divide. The lib-dem candidate for london mayor said "we need effective policing" (he was a police oficer for 31 years so waether or not hed be a good mayor he does know exactly what hes talking about (btw he was policing the brixton riots in 81)) not blanket police suppression, thats failed in the past and is going to fail now too.

btw im 20 and live in hoxton london, which isnt a 'safe' area but these things couldnt be further from the solution.