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Developers Warned over OOXML Patent Risk

Tendraes brings us a story about legal experts who are warning that Microsoft's "covenant not to sue" over use of the OOXML specification is both ambiguous and untested. Developers wishing to make use of OOXML are unlikely to understand the complex legal language of the Open Specification Promise, and such a document - being neither a release nor a contract - has never been tested in court. From ZDNet Asia: "David Vaile, executive director of the Cyberspace Law and Policy Center at the University of New South Wales, said that Microsoft participants at a recent symposium on the issue found it challenging to explain how an ordinary person 'or even an ordinary lawyer' could easily determine which parts of the specification were covered. 'This lack of certainty would mean a cautious lawyer may be reluctant to advise any third party to rely on the promise without extensive and potentially quite expensive analysis, and even that could be inconclusive,' Vaile said. 'In turn, this could restrict its viability as a usable standard for less well-resourced users, including small developers and many public organizations.'"

8 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Cyberlaw Centre, Ron Yu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative
  2. Re:too many lawyers by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wouldn't be so sure about that. The predecessors to lawyers caused this mess by arguing "but it doesn't SAY that!" so everything had to be spelled out in an unambiguous way to prevent people from arguing about the rules.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  3. Re:Right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Microsoft has not worked well with anyone. Even though they are a company based in the United States and Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are U.S. citizens, they have a philosophy and mantra that goes against the principles of democracy, against the very foundations of their country that establish freedom and opportunities for ALL people. They simply want to take advantage of numbers, not grow a society in the freedoms many forefathers have fought for, but one that would continue to give them lots and lots of money. They are selfish, greedy, and self-serving. All they care about is getting people to use their software in order to continue their money stream. They don't care who they exclude, they don't have to care about the quality of their services, because they have a monopoly bought from the US-government through the avenues that allow special interests to take power away from the people and give it to the people who have a lot of money, no matter if that money was earned honestly, or not.

    If the way Microsoft did business is very good, right, and moral, then why not teach this to our kids in our schools? Lacking in creativity? getting bad grades? Pay off your teacher. Buy your way through school through manipulation, power, and influence. Isn't that what Microsoft has done in the real world, except they have bought their way through the government enough to dispell public scrutiny? If we let Microsoft do this, are we not doing our kids a disservice because we are not teaching them the way the world is? Maybe the correct way is not democracy, but to make as much money as possible, any way you can, buying your way through life, and trampling over people who have less power than you?

    If we would let Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer take over the world, I would have to say, your free speech would be removed, you would have to pay to post your words anywhere on the internet, and your words would of course be censored, and only speech that would be permitted would have to glorify Microsoft's cause as long as Bill and Steve could use it propaganda for their empire. They are no different than a totalitarian dictatorship trying to take over the world.

    Your choice. Freedom or Bondage. I want freedom. In everything I do, I do those things that promote those ideals. In regards to computing, I use only Open Source software such as Linux, Open Office, and the rest of the gems produced as GNU/GPLed Free Open Source software which is the stuff Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer do not want anyone to use because it does not suit their purposes, like MS-Windows, Microsoft Office, or Internet Explorer (stuff that would lock anybody in to giving Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer a perpetual revenue stream without them having to earn it from me.)

  4. Re:The same has been said of the GPL by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Mainly I think the problem people have is that Microsoft has not made a clear commitment to make this an open standard that anyone may implement in their software. Personally, I would expect no less from Microsoft, and wouldn't be surprised if their intention was to scare third party developers away from OOXML. This is the company that has fought tooth and nail to make sure that nobody ever uses third party software, after all, and now they are in a market that increasingly demands open standards and interoperability. What better way to kill two birds with one stone?

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  5. Microsoft patents around OOXML by pieterh · · Score: 5, Informative

    It appears that Microsoft has about 280 patents around OOXML and related technologies. It also has a large number of patents that read on ODF. We're making a list of these and hope to be able to publish them soon.

    There are also several patents from third parties that read on OOXML, and in theory ISO should halt the process while these are examined and cleared. It looks like ISO won't do that.

    Microsoft has several techniques to keep OOXML a captive standard controlled by a single vendor. Complexity is one. But patents are the very best technique.

    Note also that OOXML's complexity is mostly because it's a dump of a legacy format. Some upcoming MS ISO proposals are very clean technically, but also very heavily patented.

    It seems clear that the OSP is worthless for GPL implementations, the biggest threat to Microsoft.

    At the same time it's worth noting that the format being voted on by ISO is not the format implemented by Office. There are over 2,300 changes and the two formats are not compatible. The reason for pushing for ISO standardisation is to let MS market their formats as "standard", while in fact implementing non-standard vendor-specific formats. And then, using patent threats against anyone who tries to reverse-engineer those.

    It's a nice con trick. Many national bodies have realized what's going on but many are too corrupted or too ignorant to understand.

  6. Re:The same has been said of the GPL by Vexorian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't believe the hype. Don't believe the FUD. There are real reasons to complain about M$. This isn't one of them.
    Hell yes it is. In fact, if there is a reason to complain about MS, optionally-open XML IS! In fact, you have not credibility left for saying the non sense you've just said.

    For starters, MS' "promise not to sue" is in no part friendly with the GPL (now that you mention it) And the mere fact that you need MS' to decide not to sue you for implementing their "open" standard is quite ridiculous (really...) What on earth prevents MS to suddenly decide to stop the promise?

    --

    Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
  7. Re:Right! by bmartin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    MSFT has done an amazing job of locking people in. PC Gaming is predominantly a Direct X-driven industry. Take a look at Halo. People are going to stick w/ Windows instead of OS X or Linux as long as MS dominates the gaming world.

    People stick with what they're used to. Wine helps with gaming in OS X and Linux, but it's not going to challenge MSFT's dominance.

    Do you want to challenge their dominance? Give a PS3 or a Wii as a gift... or even an Xbox 360. Put an end to Windows gaming. Install a copy of OpenOffice.org instead of that evaluation copy of MS Office that comes with their new computer.

    Are you sick of providing tech support to your relatives? Show them what it's like to be virus- and spyware-free with OS X or Linux. Let them run Vista and Ubuntu (or whatever distro you like) side-by-side on the same hardware and let them decide for themselves which one better suits their needs.

    I can honestly say that I've had a lot of luck. My parents, my little brother, my fiancee and her father all run Ubuntu now. We use CUPS to print documents from our laptops and it never fails. We mount remote file shares easily and spend countless hours playing Battle for Wesnoth, Runescape, etc.

    I don't care if you're a Mac or a Linux person... get people to use something other than Windows... anything else will do.

    --
    "You could almost look at defense of Microsoft as a form of the Stockholm syndrome." -neapolitan
  8. Re:Right! by coppro · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For anyone wanting an explanation of what the 'open specification promise' entails it's quite easy. It's a 'promise' from a corporation that barely complies with legal restraints, and only reluctantly operates within the limits of the law. So for what it's worth they might as well have published a blank page. Except then the non-lawyers would probably also conclude it was useless. IANAL, but from reading that page, it's clear that any non-required parts of the standard are not covered under this Promise. In other words, if it's a part of an ISO standard, but not specifically required by said standard, they can sue you.. So in other words, they can standardize some extension, except mark it as non-necessary, and sue the heck out of anyone who tries to implement it (or more likely, sue the heck out of someone who has used it for years, such that they are no longer able to provide that feature and the victim's customers only have one place to turn).