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Lawmakers Debate Patent Immunity For Banks

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Now that a small Texas company has a patent on scanning and archiving checks — something every bank does — that has survived a USPTO challenge, lawmakers feel they have to do something about it. Rather than reform patent law, they seem to think it wiser to protect the banks from having to pay billions in royalties by using eminent domain to buy the patent for an estimated $1 billion in taxpayer money, immunizing the banks. The bill is sponsored by Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL)."

14 of 382 comments (clear)

  1. Well, now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...that's just fucking retarded.

    Can't really say more than that, unfortunately.

    1. Re:Well, now... by brxndxn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The sad thing is that sheer disgust is pretty much the most insightful way to look at this..

      --
      --- We need more Ron Paul!
  2. Or, instead of feeding the patent troll by FireballX301 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They can cashier the USPTO Commissioner, appoint a new one, and order a comprehensive review.

    A billion dollars. Talk about misuse of taxpayer funds.

    1. Re:Or, instead of feeding the patent troll by superswede · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > $1B is a lot of money. Perhaps in the future someone will look back and decide that they could have saved that money by reforming the patent system. It's all too easy to nay-say (I am guilty) but some small movement, even backwards sometimes, is good in what is a mostly stagnant area. ...or maybe it's time to reform the US bank system - checks belongs to the 20th century!

      Start by providing real electronic transfers and bill payments. For example, to transfer money electronically between accounts in two different US banks (e.g. BofA, WellsFargo, ...) costs something like 20-40 USD and the receiving bank may charge an additional 10 USD. As a comparison, most transfer within the EU is free across banks and countries! It is even cheaper to send money from EU to the US, than within the US.

      The cheapest solution in the US is to send the money via a check. <sarcasm>We've got this beautiful service where we can do "online" payment, which in practice means that a physical check is printed somewhere in the US, mailed to the recipient who then drop it of at her/his bank to cash it. The bank then probably send the check off to another location where it is *scanned* so it can be archived and verified later. That is what I call an efficient bank system.</sarcasm>

      So, maybe DataTreasury is doing us a favor - we might get an improved bank system without checks.

  3. You've got to be kidding by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

    WTF?

    Patents are supposed to benefit the common good. That's their only purpose. Now that they recognize one case (in many) where patents are crippling productivity, harming the economy, and working against the common good, they do nothing to address the problem of people abusing the patent system. Instead, they take more money from the people, harming the common good further, in order to bail out banks.

    That is completely absurd.

  4. Re:Heh... by russotto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're close. It's not C, it's an unholy combination of COBOL (used for bit manipulation and other detailed machine-level stuff), FORTRAN (used for database access), and SQL (used for business logic). With plenty of assembler thrown in, and gotos galore.

    (OK, there may be some C in there. Used for string manipulation, probably).

  5. Re:Is anyone really surprised by this? by evanbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    if we fix it the right way.

    And what makes you think we would do better the second time around? Is there any actual evidence that anyone knows how to do better (as in, backed by at least a modicum of data, not just a few papers and manifestos)? Is there any evidence that if they do, the people actually rebuilding the economy would pay any attention?

    What makes you think that drastic economic changes would actually succeed? Do you know of any significant examples of replacing a capitalist system with something drastically different and having it work?

  6. Taxpayer's Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So in effect, the banks are stealing technology, asking Congress to litigate their loses, and now this Senator is front-man for a huge expenditure of _our_ money to bail them out?

    Something is amiss here, because I'm still paying for my checks. Let the banks and their huge reservoir of money pay for their technologies. With interest.

    I don't care one bit if the banks invested so much of their capital into inflated mortgage loans. That's their problem for not making _sound_ investments. They freaking have _economists_ working in those high-rise offices.

  7. Not sure who the bad guys are here - the banks? by Mr.+Roadkill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I understand correctly, Ballard claims to have developed these techniques and methods in the mid-90's, at a time when physical transfer of checks was required - federal law would not have allowed those methods at that time.

    Then, the world turned upside-down - and his invention became a necessity.

    DataTreasury has negotiated licencing with some financial institutions, but there are others that seem to feel that they shouldn't have to pay and aren't afraid to try to make the US taxpayer pay instead.

    While it may be possible to characterise DataTreasury as a "patent troll" by some readings of the term, Ballard appears to be the first to have come up with and documented those methods and techniques and that's been upheld by the USPTO. DataTreasury claims to have attempted to sell the patent-protected system to the banks, who went ahead and ran with their own implementations. Isn't the patent system supposed to be about providing a limited-term monopoly for those who come up with ideas, whether it's an idea for a better mousetrap or a method of performing financial transfers? Isn't it possible that the banks are trying to use their sheer size and influence to avoid paying for something that they really ought to?

  8. Re:Well can't say I blame em. by slashqwerty · · Score: 4, Insightful
    To use eminent domain on a patent is to reinforce the notion that patents are property rather than an exclusive right. Congress doesn't even have the authority to do this. If our forefathers wanted congress to grant money to inventors they would have placed that power in the constitution. Instead they carefully limited what congress could do:

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries

    There is nothing in that statement about congress purchasing someone's rights.

    Consider another intellectual right. Congress has retroactively extended copyrights with every copyright extension in history. Certainly they should be able to retroactively shorten it. But if that day ever comes copyright holders are going to start screaming eminent domain.

  9. Re:Is anyone really surprised by this? by bmartin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I have to disagree. The problem here isn't the banks; it's the patent system.

    Patents were designed to help people with new, nontrivial ideas (or new nontrivial ways of doing things that provided some great benefit) protect their investments. They were primarily used for mechanical processes. Unfortunately, when America went from being an industrial nation to a service-oriented one, the rules about patents were perverted into our current catastrophic state. They're more of a legal weapon now than they are a means to secure the fruits of labor.

    There once was a time when the scientific masses used patents as a way to ensure their research would pay off. Modern parents are usually loopholes or technicalities discovered by legal teams; the businesses and the lawyers get rich; the companies that would benefit from the ability to use such technologies to help the economy progress and make the lives of the average Joe easier end up at the short end of the stick.

    Really, patents are about greed and hindering technological progress. They discourage innovation by providing an instant monopoly on technology.

    --
    "You could almost look at defense of Microsoft as a form of the Stockholm syndrome." -neapolitan
  10. Re:Well can't say I blame em. by greenbird · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It sounds like maybe the banks got themselves into this mess and perhaps deserve what is coming to them.

    You would have to be an idiot not to see this idea as the most obvious thing to anyone with even half a wit. This idea was inevitable and the idiot that got the patent didn't "invent" anything. It was simply an idea waiting for the cost of the technology and the legal system to catch up with it. That this patent was upheld pretty proves the USPTO is run by morons who would think tying your shoe with a double knot is original enough to be patentable. Digitally scanning documents and using the scans as legal instruments, yeah that took a genius to think up. The banks didn't steal this guy's idea they just took the obvious next step probably oblivious that anyone even talked to the shyster with the patent. I come up with 100's of more original ideas every month in my daily work.

    --
    Who is John Galt?
  11. Re:Is anyone really surprised by this? by Copid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You'll see stock prices are random. Study after study proves it. It's not a mystery but there isn't a formula either.
    On the whole, there are a lot of meaningful patterns that we would do well to note. Shiller's graph of P/E ratios vs long term yield in Irrational Exuberance is pretty illustrative that there are fundamental rules governing trends and that the efficient market hypothesis is wishful thinking. Short term prices may be a random walk, but that's about as far as I'd go.

    You'll see that cutting tax rates leads to increased Gov't revenues by growing the economy. (Don't give me the crap about Reagan, he spent it and then some but it busted the Soviet Union..not a bad use of the money).
    Let's see the data. Seriously. I've seen a lot of people attempt to see the Laffer curve in the data (my favorite being this train wreck of reasoning, but as far as I can tell, they're not doing much better than the people who are attempting to see Jesus in their toast.

    You can't blame long term problems on groups who haven't been in control of the process.
    I don't remember seeing a lot of vetoes of profligate spending under Republican presidencies when Democrats ran congress, and for the brief period when they ran both, I can't say that they were an example of fiscal restraint. Face it: Politicians have strong incentives to borrow and spend.

    You'll see a failure to increase a program budget by the proposed X% is called a "cut". If your boss didn't give you that 10% raise did your salary go down?
    If inflation is greater than 10%, yes it did.
    --
    An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
  12. Re:Ugh by aldousd666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not sure you need an advanced degree to figure out that a patent granted based on 'what' you are scanning as opposed to say 'inventing the scanner' is a bit on the obvious side. We should also see patents on scanning each other thing that it's possible to scan. These guys didn't invent a scanner, nor the idea that you should store digital data once you've scanned it, they've only articulated that it's something they'll be doing using a scanner that what they'll be scanning and storing are 'checks'. That's fucking ridiculous. I'll take on out on Newsprint media then. How about Comic Books? perhaps I can 'invent' a system that will 'enable' you to scan your ass on a copier and archive it for later ensuing hilarity. This doesn't show anything but the fact that the guys who granted this patent didn't actually think about it, and that the guys debating it right now are being paid not to admit that they've thought about it by some lobbyist. I'm all for freemarkets and IP, but god damnit, someone vet these things.

    --
    Speak for yourself.