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UK Report Slams EULAs

draevil writes "Britain's National Consumer Council has completed an investigation into the practice of software End User License Agreements(EULAs) with the conclusion that many consumers are signing away their legal rights and agreeing to unfair terms, which they could never have scrutinized before purchase. The report also acknowledges that even if the EULA were available prior to purchase, it would be unreasonable to expect an average consumer to understand the terms to which they were agreeing. Here are the full report (PDF) and a summary." The NCC recommends that the European Commission bring softwre licenses under the same consumer protections that apply to other products in the EU.

8 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. Re:I am not handsome enough to be a lawyer by Sorthum · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And one more that you neglected:

    The option to back out. By the time you have the EULA on your screen, you've already paid for the software. "Hell no" isn't a viable option; have you ever tried to return open software to a retail store?

  2. Re:I am not handsome enough to be a lawyer by chaidawg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Courts have upheld EULA's in the US on several occasions. Save for some terms that the 9th circuit recently found unconscionable (particularly arbitration clauses) the courts are ok with them. See the ProCD and Gateway2000 cases. (Law Student, graduating in May)

  3. The Borland "It's like a book" license c. 1980s by davidwr · · Score: 5, Informative

    In the 1980s, Borland products came with a "treat it like a book" license.

    It was written in Plain English. It essentially said you could trade, lend, buy, sell, resell, etc. as long as no more than one person had copies at a time and that the software wasn't being used on more than one computer at a time.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  4. Re:By replying to this message by Eberlin · · Score: 5, Funny

    And by reading the subject line of this reply, you agree to give me all my rights back.

    However, I'll voluntarily do the one foot, howl at sky thing. Sounds fun enough.

  5. Re:I am not handsome enough to be a lawyer by milsoRgen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    have you ever tried to return open software to a retail store? Indeed, returning software is just not an option. I was just having this discussion with my girl friend about my BitTorrent usage, how I need to try before I buy games. That's simply not an option (trying) for many games, and even games that have demos available are quite often based on beta code. But anyways, why should I be penalized when everything on the box points to a runnable program, only to find out the requirements are a little more liberal than I would expect. It's the same deal with the EULAs, once cash money has been paid and you start reading those things... What do you do, take the hit? That appears to be the only option.

    It needs to be pointed out, piracy is the stated reason I cannot return opened software. Yet not being able to return opened software is driving me to piracy...
    --
    I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
  6. return-to-store test case by davidwr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'd love to see someone do a return-to-store test case:

    Go to a Big Box Computer Retailer, use cash to buy an expensive item you know the manager won't "just let you return" in the interest of customer satisfaction, take it home, open it, start to install it, click "no, I don't agree," then try to return it. Use cash so it's clear you don't have recourse through your credit-card company.

    The store says no. File a several-hundred-dollar-plus-court-fees small-claims action.

    Wait for the store to transfer the case to regular court. Amend your suit to include legal fees and triple damages for being an ass, offering to settle for the original purchase price plus legal fees incurred so far all the while, so the judge knows you aren't being an ass.

    Wait for the ruling that the contract was not complete until you click on "yes, I agree." The judge should rule that either:

    *you had a contract with the store, in which case the product did not meet ordinary merchantability standards i.e. it would not work without imposing other obligations not present at the time of the contract, in which case you can void the contract

    or

    *The store is acting as an agent for the software maker. You gave the store owner funds to hold until you entered into a contract with the software maker. If you did not enter into the contract you have a reasonable period of time to seek a refund from the store.

    In the worst case, the judge will let the store off the hook but allow you to add the software maker as a co- and later sole-defendant, and rule that the software maker owes you a full refund plus sales tax. In this case you will be out your legal fees though.

    In any case, there will be a ruling giving consumers protection up to the point that they say "yes, I agree."

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  7. I Do Not Agree letter by HeavenlyWhistler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A contract is binding when you agree to it. I have always been tempted to simply mail them a letter before installing the software in which I say "I am writing to inform you that I do not agree to your EULA, and I do not agree that I need a license to use this software. Since you sold me these nice shiny CDs containing the software, I am going to go ahead and install it. Have a nice day." Now this violates the Do Not Poke The Bear principle, but is on firmer legal ground than just ignoring it and hoping it will go away. The question is, when their lawyers send you a reply, what can they argue about? You didn't violate copyright (you bought a legal copy from the owner). You didn't agree to a contract so it isn't breach of contract. What legal grounds do they have to say "don't use our software", other than "we don't give you permission"? And who says I need their permission? It's my computer. If nothing else, their demand letter would have to include a refund check, otherwise they are in violation of their own EULA.

  8. They almost certainly aren't by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The evidence I point to the most is that I work for a state university. As a state employee I can't sign anything for the university, it all has to be sent to legal. Have to make sure that everything is kept in a row as far as what the state agrees to. However they've told us we can just click through on the licenses on software. Clearly, it is because they don't believe they are enforceable, and they are a rather cautious lot.

    As for being a contract it fails in several ways:

    1) As you noted, there's no exchange. A contract MUST have an exchange to be valid. Even if you do something like quit a claim to a house (like you helped your kid by co-signing for it and now you are giving it over to them) it will still read "For the sum of $10 and other valuable consideration." Why? If there wasn't an exchange, the contract would be null.

    2)It's ex post facto. Contracts have to happen before the sale, not after. That's why when you buy a house all the loan documents and such are done before you take ownership, before money changes hands. You can't try and say "But you agreed to this!" after the fact, you do it before hand or it is too late.

    3) Not open to negotiation. That's what the "meeting of minds" thing means. A contract has to be open to negotiation. You don't have to meet face to face or anything (often it is done through the mail) and you certainly don't have to accept what the other side proposes, but you have to be open to it. You can't hand them a contract to sign and then have no way to get back to you.

    4) No proof of agreement. That someone clicked "I agree" means nothing. There's no proof you agreed to it, or indeed that you were capable fo doing so. What happens when a minor buys a game and installs it? A minor can't enter in to a contract on their own, the parents never cosigned, etc.

    There is really nothing about an EULA that meets the normal standard of what a contract is. If they want a contract governing their software, they need to have you sign it beforehand. However I'm going to guess that if people are presented with a 10 page wodge of text (EULAs are longer than any rental agreement I've seen) to read and sign when they try and buy an Xbox game, that it'll prove quickly to be an unworkable business model.