Slashdot Mirror


Obsolete Technical Skills

Ponca City, We Love You writes "Robert Scoble had an interesting post on his blog a few days ago on obsolete technical skills — 'things we used to know that no longer are very useful to us.' Scoble's initial list included dialing a rotary phone, using carbon paper to make copies, and changing the gas mixture on your car's carburetor. The list has now been expanded into a wiki with a much larger list of these obsolete skills that includes resolving IRQ conflicts on a mother board, assembly language programming, and stacking a quarter on an arcade game to indicate you have next. We're invited to contribute more."

20 of 603 comments (clear)

  1. Assembly isn't obsolete! by nurhussein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Systems programmers worth their salt can at least read assembler output. It's a valuable skill when debugging kernel errors.

    1. Re:Assembly isn't obsolete! by Oscaro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Every programmer should know something about assembly. It gives you a better insight on what the compiler does for you, on how a function is invoked, on how an array is accessed, and so on.

    2. Re:Assembly isn't obsolete! by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, assembly is very relevant for embedded devices - except i386 assembly that is :)

      Sure 'smartphones' etc start getting programmable in high-level languages but OTOH simple microcontrollers enter more and more of daily appliances. You don't write firmware in assembly for a DVD player anymore, but you write it for a toaster or a bicycle lamp, devices that 5 years ago didn't have any firmware or programming capability. The frontier is and likely always will be assembly, and even though the frontier keeps moving and likely in 5 years the bicycle lamps will be programmable in Java, maybe ballpens will be programmable in assembly.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    3. Re:Assembly isn't obsolete! by jcnnghm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And this is exactly the problem with computer science education today. I don't think I had a well rounded understanding of computer science until after I learned assembly and implemented my own instruction set on an FPGA. Doing that was kind of like hearing the music when the apes touch the obelisk in 2001. When all you know is Java, it's kind of hard for the computer to be anything more than a magical box that run Java. As soon as you implement jump instructions, everything else seems to fall into place.

      --
      You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
    4. Re:Assembly isn't obsolete! by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The article points out that this is a niche skill, not one that's widely useful.

      It was always a niche skill, possessed by only a tiny fraction of the population. There are probably more assembly language programmers today than there were forty years ago. And assembly language is used for the same things today as it was back then. If people want to say that today, programmers use languages like PHP and Java for creating web-applications not Assembly, then that is fine. Assembly never was used for creating web-applications because they didn't exist back then. Assembly has neither diminished in popularity nor entirely been superceded in its area. Shouldn't be on that list.
      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    5. Re:Assembly isn't obsolete! by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The article points out that this is a niche skill, not one that's widely useful.

      It was always a niche skill, possessed by only a tiny fraction of the population. There are probably more assembly language programmers today than there were forty years ago. And assembly language is used for the same things today as it was back then. If people want to say that today, programmers use languages like PHP and Java for creating web-applications not Assembly, then that is fine. Assembly never was used for creating web-applications because they didn't exist back then. Assembly has neither diminished in popularity nor entirely been superceded in its area. Shouldn't be on that list. I think this is an excellent point and one that really doesn't get mentioned enough whenever the topic of "dying" technical skills comes up.

      Some skills just seem like they're obsolete or dying because the proportion of people within a field that have them is getting smaller -- but they're really stronger than ever when you look at the raw numbers.

      I agree with the parent and fully suspect that there are more people who understand x86 assembler today than there were at the perceived 'height' of assembler, back in the early 90s. There are just that many more people in the IT field. Learning assembler, if you happen to be interested, is also a lot easier now than it was then. Today, computers are basically a mainstream subject, plus you have all the information available on the Internet. In 1990, finding a good book on assembler programming would probably have required a trip to a large university's library.

      Obviously there are some skills that really are on their way out, or will be when the current crop of people who truly understand them either retire or die. But in many cases I think it's easy to confuse the S/N ratio in a particular sphere with the number of people who actually are familiar with a topic.
      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  2. Too many jokes and false entries by philbert2.71828 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fortran isn't obsolete. It's still popular in particle physics. Also, "buying an HD-DVD" is on the list. Not that that was ever a "skill." This list is just begging to be filled with joke entries like that.

  3. Navigating by compass is obsolete? by dave1791 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Navigating by compass is obsolete? That's like saying that keeping candles in your house in case of extended blackouts is obsolete.

    Some things on that list are either silly or shortsighted.

  4. Cracking protected information. by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without assembly knowledge we'd have uncrackable IP "protection" schemes.

    1. Re:Cracking protected information. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem goes way beyond IP protection. Do you think that pseudo "AES encryption" device we heard of yesterday that only used some XORing for "protection" would have been debunked if there wasn't people who still know their assembler?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. Churn butter? by WK2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Churn butter is on the list. I guess it just comes that way out of the cow now. Science is amazing.

    --
    Write your own Choose Your Own Adventure. http://www.freegameengines.org/gamebook-engine/
  6. Obsolete skills by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm looking forward to the day when blogging becomes obsolete.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  7. So, I'm obsolete, huh? by Wingsy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I design embedded systems for a living, and this obsolete assembly language skill is what distinguishes my designs from those other companies. True, it takes me a little longer to get the code done, but it runs faster, has more features, and fits into a much smaller memory space than what I could do with C, or anything else. (Not to mention the fact that all the bugs in my code are all mine and none were introduced by a compiler.) I feel like it's to my advantage that assembly has faded from most designer's skill set. I won't deny that this skill is on the endangered species list, but to group it with the skill needed to dial a rotary phone made me speak up. It may be rare but it certainly isn't useless.

    --
    If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
  8. I can think of a few by ThreeGigs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Using PEEK and POKE to 'unerase' that Apple II basic program someone erased when they accidentally typed 'NEW'.
    The skill to determine a modem's connect speed from hearing the negotiation sounds.
    'Notching' an old single-sided floppy to be able to make it a double-sided disc.
    Cleaning and/or aligning the heads on your cassette player.
    Terminating or crimping coax.
    Knowing you need to type "DIR /S /AH /ON" without having to DIR /? first.
    Was 'winding your watch' in the list?

    I'd love to see some speculation on what skills you'd expect to be obsoleted by 2029.

  9. It's not obsolete, here's why: by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are probably many times more people capable of programming in assembly language today than in the 70s. Kernel developpers, compiler developers (obviously!), CPU designers, embedded systems developpers and so on.
    On the other hand, there are many times less people capable of making horse buggies than in the XIXth century; that's obsolete.

    1. Re:It's not obsolete, here's why: by John_Booty · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How much of the cool stuff you enjoy using today would even exist if it had to be coded in assembly? You think you'd be using a nice, modern web browser or game if they had to code the whole thing in assembly?

      Coding in higher-level languages frees programmers up to create actual cool stuff. It's great that some ur-geek wrote a bitchin' disk driver in ASM that fits in 7KB of code during one Jolt-and-meth-fueled month back in 1991 but jesus, who cares. Given the chance, I bet that engineer would have done it in 1/4 of the time in C and actually done something useful with the rest of his month. Or at least stayed away from the meth and Jolt.

      It's the technological equivalent of carrying buckets of water three miles from the stream to your prarie frontier home every single morning. Like, it's cool and admirable that people once did that, but thank goodness we generally don't have to do that these days. Even if my tap water really doesn't have any new functionality compared to that stream water.

      --

      OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
    2. Re:It's not obsolete, here's why: by demallien2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, percentages are quite simply a sucky way of judging whether something is obsolete.

      In the context of this discussion, a skill is obsolete when it is no longer needed to do something that is still being done today - For example, nobody needs to know how to load a program off tape on a C64 these days, because we don't have C64s anymore.

      By this definition, assembly programming is obviously NOT obsolete. We still need assembly programmers: for device drivers, for kernel programming, for writing compilers, for reverse engineering old code that is no longer supported, for cracking dumb DRM schemes that take away our fair-use rights, etc etc etc. The fact that not many people know how to write assembly is irrelevant: does the fact that few people know how to build a human-rated space launch vehicule mean that it is obsolete?

  10. Re:But what is going to be obsolete ? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As someone who uses many languages I can tell you this: All imperative languages can be learned in very reasonable time if you know your C. Everything is derived from C today, from PHP to Perl to Java. Why? Well, maybe because the guys who wrote those languages come from C.

    In a nutshell, it doesn't matter what language you use, which language is the next big thing, or what language becomes obsolete tomorrow. You will probably not know all those fancy functions that do what you used to do by hand, but what matters is whether you know the math behind the code. I've seen so many people claiming to know Java, C# and whatnot, just to give me that incredibly blank stare when I ask them for hash tables. Yes, they know every function, every class in Java by heart, but they have no knowledge of what they should actually DO with it.

    Now, it might not be a "necessity" tomorrow when there is a function that does it for you. But it is VERY easy to learn about a function (hell, look it up, it ain't like there's no online help file for it) while it is not so trivial to understand what it actually DOES.

    So it does not matter what language will arise or what language becomes obsolete. What matters is that you know the theory behind the structures you're supposed to use. When you know that, you can understand what the functions and classes do. When you understand that, you can more efficiently and sensibly fill them. When you do that, your program will work with fewer bugs and fewer "why the fu.. doesn't that work now, it did last time" moments.

    Don't learn languages. Learn theory!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Jumping off the bandwagon? by TheRealChuckNorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been thinking about retiring - I'm 34 years old. I think I'd be happier if I'd jump off the bandwagon and started doing something totally different. Something that would not require me to study all the time and be stressed all the time.

    I grew up with home computers. I learned BASIC when I was 11. That is obsolete skill now. Then I got my first PC in 1988 and learned DOS. That's obsolete. Then I learned Borland's Turbo Pascal. That's obsolete. Then I learned Microsoft C programming and started programming Windows 3.1 applications that used Windows menus etc. That's obsolete. I learned Gopher and Telnet in the 80s. That's obsolete. I learned Pine. That's obsolete. I learned to tweak Windows 95 registry. That's obsolete. I learned BEA Tuxedo at work. That's obsolete. Looking at it now - I've wasted countless of hours to something that is totally obsolete now! Had I invested that time into improving myself - learning who I am, how I behave, how to enjoy this life - I would be much happier now I guess.

    --
    Don't F**K with Chuck!
  12. Simplistic thinking in this list by amper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What strikes me as astonishing about this topic, other than the fact that the majority of the discussion seems to revolve around the utility of assembly programming, is that the list itself displays a marked lack of understanding of the ongoing utility of low technology devices. For instance, one of the items listed is "Buttoning one's trouser fly". Perhaps the author of that idea has never heard of Levi's 501 Jeans? I submit that the 501's are some of the most popular trousers in the world, and the skill of buttoning them could hardly be considered obsolete. The rest of the list is rife with items that only the most technologically-blinded among us could possibly think of as obsolete.

    Even the summary contains a dubious suggestion, "Changing the gas mixture on your car's carburetor". Perhaps the author is unaware of the vast numbers of motorcycles and small engines sold each year that incorporate carburetors?

    "Cast lead bullets"? Thousands, if not millions, of ammunition reloaders would disagree.
    "Changing vacuum tubes"? Millions of musicians would disagree.
    "Darkroom photography skills"? "Developing photographic film"? Obviously, this person is not a photographer!

    That's as far as I can get without becoming even more disgusted with the state of humanity, or at least the supposedly tech-savvy people who probably are contributing to this list.