Military Grounds Stealth Bomber Fleet

Ponca City, We Love You writes "America's entire B-2 stealth bomber fleet, which has played a crucial part in all major US conflicts since 1989, has been grounded after one of the jets crashed near a military base in Guam. The crash — the first involving the B-2 — was the most expensive single aircraft accident in history. (The planes cost $1.2B each.) Officials assume the crash was caused by either mechanical failure or human error, but have grounded all B-2s to ensure there is not some fundamental fault developing in the 21-strong fleet. The crash occurred Saturday morning local time as the B-2 was taking off from Andersen Air Force base on Guam, a US territory south of Japan. An Air Force spokesman said, 'The cause of crash is unknown, pending an investigation. The pilots had ejected safely — no serious injuries. One is mobile, one is still in the hospital under observation.'"

Comments

Stealth?

[lobiusmoop]

Maybe I'm being naive again, but what is the point of designing an untrackable aircraft and then telling the whole world its fleet status? Why is the B2 in the news at all? Or should I be reaching for a tinfoil hat?

Re:Stealth?

[15Bit]

Except they have a considerably longer life-span because it takes a lot of time and money to develop both new aircraft and new radar/air defence systems. So yes, 10 years ago it was "teh shit", and today it continues to be. The only difference is that a few high tech nations (mostly friends of the US anyway) can sometimes see it on radar now.

Re:Stealth?

[Atlantis-Rising]

There's a reason B-2 stealth bombers don't go supersonic. The rather large, obvious concussive boom makes your stealthy plane not so stealthy anymore.

Re:Stealth?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mr. Ben Rich, the former head of Lockheed Skunk Works, the 'father of Stealth' and who has now sadly passed away made some interesting comments just before he died. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Rich ]

One of which is:

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity..... anything you can imagine we already know how to do."

I find it really hard to believe this.. but this is coming from someone with a huge reputation and know-how. I guess I should try to pick up an 'I want to believe poster' somewhere. ;)

But you can be sure something is available which is not visible for the general public. Why can you be sure?

They've retired the SR71 Blackbird, supposedly because 'we now have satellites'. The thing is a) satellites are not always over the location you're interested in at the correct time. and b) everyone can determine the orbit of the satellite and hide under a camel or two if the thing flies over.

I would estimate the chance that they solely depend on satellites now to be small. But I'm not an expert in any of these fields, so do not take my word for it. :)

Re:Stealth?

[Solandri]

Is this something they teach in schools in the US? I find it bewildering that so many people from that country have this extraordinarily unbalanced view of WWII.

Had the UK gone turtle we'd have survived fine without the US. Had the USSR not had US materials/equipment they'd maybe have lost 25m men not just the 20m they did lose.

If it weren't for the US, the Germans would still have lost the war. Had America joined the war sooner, it may have been over quicker. Instead the UK had to bankrupt the world's largest ever empire to win that war, and did so on a point of principle. Don't fucking tell me the US saved Europe.

Incidentally, half of Europe did live under communist dictatorship for fifty years post-WWII. Ironically without US global interference and posturing the communist states may have collapsed more swiftly than they did.

WWII ended the way it did because of the joint effort of all countries involved (US, UK, Russia, China, Canada, Australia, etc). Like a see-saw, the combined mass of all the nations tipped the balance. Recognizing one nation for being the one to push them over the top is giving them undue credit. But likewise, to dismiss any of their contributions, especially one of the "big three," strikes of revisionist history and a seriously unbalanced worldview. Could the Allies have won WWII without the US? Possibly, but the UK's industrial base was being bombed daily (Hitler did not have to conquer the UK, just beat it into submission). The primary contribution of the US was an untouchable industrial base. So it stands to reason that if the Allies had won without US contribution, all of Europe would've become part of the Soviet Union.

The US was key to victory in the Pacific theatre (Europeans tend to forget that half of the war). Without the US entering the war, likely large portions of China, Indochina (including large chunks of the British Empire), the Pacific islands, and possibly even Australia would've become part of the Empire of Japan. The Russians didn't want to get involved in that side of the war, even signing a non-aggression pact with the Japanese. The US had to beg and plead with them to get them to even declare war on Japan following the atomic bombings (giving up portions of Korea and Indochina to Soviet influence as a result).

Back on topic, I'm delighted that there are ways to detect and defeat B2 bombers. US military dominance is not a good thing for the world at large. Healthy tension encourages equilibrium, which I'd greatly prefer to US imperialistic pressures.

You're barking up the wrong tree. The US doesn't use its military to apply imperialistic pressure. The military is used sparingly (Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Kuwait, Somalia, Iraq - hardly an empire). The vast majority of any US imperialistic influence comes from using its economic might. The sooner you recognized this, the sooner you'd become more effective at combating US influence. Instead you're wasting your time complaining about and belittling US military power (probably because it better fits the Evil stereotype you wish to believe), while the its true power and influence remains uncontested. China has realized this and is acting accordingly (some would say brilliantly); many who pushed for a unified EU economy understood this. The Soviets did not fully grasp this, tried to counter the US militarily, and lost the Cold War as a result; you appear to be following in their footsteps.

Ummm, why wouldn't they?

[Sycraft-fu]

It isn't as though this really changes anything. There aren't any nations that will go "Oh well with those aircraft gone we can certainly take the US! Their 12 carriers, hundreds of ICBMs and such aren't any worry at all!"

You also have to remember that the planes aren't being destroyed or anything, just taken out of operation until they do a review. In the event of an emergency, they could be put right back in service. Also, the B2 isn't untrackable, it is just very hard to see on radar. It isn't invisible or anything. Any nation with reasonable satellite intelligence can easily keep watch on the bases (or maybe just base, they used to only fly out of Whiteman, not sure if that's still true) where they fly from and tell when they leave.

The B2 is a stealth jet, and there certainly are some things about it that are classified, but it isn't as though it is some big secret anymore. You can go and see them at air shows and such. It generally isn't even secret what they are being used for. They are just high altitude bombers for whatever conflict the US happens to be in. They are only special in that they are extremely difficult to track on radar (and thus to get a missile to lock on) and that they have a truly world-wide range with refueling (and like a 6000 knot range even without).

Re:Stop talking out of your ass

[McGiraf]

The USSR was a big part of it.

Huge Military Budget = Declining Empire

[catchblue22]

A classic sign of a declining empire is a massive surge in military spending. During the rise of an empire, many countries will voluntarily join the empire because it is in their own economic interest to do so. As the empire ages, satisfaction with the empire in outlying states begins to decline. The dominant power makes increasing economic demands on these outlying states, while providing decreasing benefits to them. In order to quell the dissatisfaction, the dominant power needs to use increasing amounts of force to preserve imperial power. The increased military spending becomes a huge economic burden for the dominant power, which in turn further increases the economic demands on the outlying states. This becomes a vicious circle of surging dissatisfaction in the empire, and surging military spending. It ends when the economy of the dominant power can no longer sustain the large military. The outlying states fall away to form other alliances, and the former imperial power becomes "just another country".

History has shown this to be true. The Roman Empire collapsed partly because its outlying states rebelled against a huge economic burden. The Spanish Empire collapsed after building a huge armada of ships, only to see the fleet destroyed by an upstart Britain. The British Empire collapsed, as outlying states fell away, despite its huge military power. The Soviet Empire collapsed under the burden of massive military spending. I believe that something similar is happening to America.

Many of America's client states are rebelling against the economic burdens placed upon them. A clear example of this is seen in South America, where several countries (Venezuela included) are acting in contravention to America's economic wishes. One can arguably say that the Islamic insurgency in the Middle East is also a symptom of dissatisfaction by outlying states in the Empire. As the American dollar has declined recently, other currencies, such as the Euro are displacing the US dollar is the currency of choice for international trade. Furthermore, the American economy is in deep trouble, largely because it has borrowed hundreds of billions of dollars to build expensive weapon systems (and also to build too many unproductive but expensive toys such as big screen TV's).

I don't want this decline to happen because I am a part of this empire, but make no mistake: it is happening. Our only hope in this is that America will fade peacefully, like Britain, to become "just another country".