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Fish Can Count to Four

Posted by samzenpus on from the incredible-mr.-limpet dept.

Khemist writes "Fish can count, according to scientists, who have found that North American mosquito fish have the ability to count up to four. Previously it was known that fish could tell big shoals from small ones, but researchers have now found that they have a limited ability to count how many other fish are nearby. This means that they have similar counting abilities to those observed in apes, monkeys and dolphins and humans with very limited mathematical ability."

7 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. Or not.. by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Neurons fire when a certain threshhold of other neurons are firing around them, does that mean they can "count"? It's an electrochemical reaction, not intelligence.

    1. Re:Or not.. by Ed+Avis · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim." -- Dijkstra

      I think a similar principle applies to this experiment. They showed that goldfish can count to four. Whether this signifies 'intelligence' in some abstract sense is a different question, and not really relevant here.

      --
      -- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
    2. Re:Or not.. by soren100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Neurons fire when a certain threshhold of other neurons are firing around them, does that mean they can "count"? It's an electrochemical reaction, not intelligence. All humans have going for them is electrochemical reactions in neurons as well (in terms of intelligence). If your statement was at all correct (which it isn't) you would be "disproving" intelligence in humans as well.

      Research on fish intelligence is showing some interesting results -- here is an impressive video of fish swimming in unison in response to hand signals . Science is busily proving that fish are smarter than most people realize.

      If you believe in the theory of evolution, which most Slashdotters hopefully do, this will only make sense -- learning, reasoning, emotions, and other forms of mental activity had to evolve through different life forms before reaching their highest expression in humans. If you didn't believe that, then you would have to believe that all of the human mental gifts just somehow spontaneously "appeared" out of nowhere. (or were granted through "creation" for example).

  2. I;m not sure by techpawn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not sure if the can count but I think my betta fish is learning how to lift the gate that separates it from the other betta in the dual betta tank. A few minutes after I close the gate he's there at the bottom trying to lift it. I know fish are smarter than most give them credit for, thank god there not a reverse scuba suit...

    --
    Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    1. Re:I;m not sure by Rogue+Haggis+Landing · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The betta I had as a kid could recognize me. When I opened the lid to his little tank he would come to the surface on the right side, where I would drop food. He wouldn't come when my brother (who never fed him) did the same thing. We were both about the same height, same hair and skin coloring, etc., so that's pretty clever, at least for a fish. Hell, my own father still can't tell us apart. I suppose I should have fed him more often.

      Anyway, the point is that fish aren't mindless automatons like everyone thinks. They have a (limited) ability to learn (simple) things.

    2. Re:I;m not sure by matria · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One summer an orb spinner spider build her web above the porch stairs. I began feeding her when she and the bugs were small; I'd toss them into her web. Towards the end of summer, she was huge, no longer maintained her web, and she would come down from under the eves to the bottom of the matted mess that was left whenever I stepped on the stairs, waiting for me to toss her something, but not for anyone else.

  3. so off the mark by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's sad how they test to see if fish can count, or even assume that they are in fact counting, when they could be looking at the overall size ratio of the school itself and not the fish collective individually. This is one of those studies we pay for with our tax dollars, that I would highly decree to be a waste of money.

    If I look over at a group of 2 diff. gangs and by instinct I will go for the bigger gang, then chances are that I will go for the visibly larger gang. Now to test if they were actually counting, I would place 3 HUGE almost mutated fish in one group and 4 excessively small fish in another then see what the result would be. The size of the 4 fish would have to be smaller then the size of the 3 fish together

    There would be no counting, its the overall size that affects their brain at a visual level, not sitting there 1 + 1 + 1 I guess I'll go with the left group....they are affected also by movement so if the school of fish all go to the left, they see the change as it happens by the group, not that they think if they go left then i go left...

    I really think sometimes studies like these actually make people stupid.