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NASA to Demonstrate Moon Rover
coondoggie writes "NASA will this week demonstrate its lunar robot rover equipped with a drill designed to find water and oxygen-rich soil on the moon. NASA said the engineering challenge of building such as drilling system was daunting because a robot rover designed for prospecting within lunar craters has to operate in continual darkness at extremely cold temperatures with little power. The moon has one-sixth the gravity of Earth, so a lightweight rover will have a difficult job resisting drilling forces and remaining stable.The project is just one demonstration of the collaboration NASA is utilizing to bring together its next moon shot. For example, Carnegie Mellon was responsible for the robot's design and testing, and the Northern Centre for Advanced Technology built the drilling system. NASA's Glenn Research Center contributed the rover's power management system. NASA's Ames Research Center built a system that navigates the rover in the dark. The Canadian Space Agency funded a Neptec camera that builds three-dimensional images of terrain using laser light, NASA said."
is hopping over 2 troughs in rapid succession while shooting the moguls that immediately follow
Good question. I'm more interested in if they're going to ask observers to wear "alien" costumes while they film it. A few years from now, after the "landing" on the moon, they show their footage of the moon "landing" with the "aliens" who happened to be there and tell Congress that they need more money to investigate these "aliens". After all, NASA has learned their lesson from the first fake...I mean the first landing.
I prefer Flambe as apposed flamebait.
so.. what are the odds of the robotic rover being hit by a very high speed mass impacting in an attempt to locate hydrogen fired from another NASA section?
I can see it now... "mission controller! we did not find any hydrogen, but we picked up large amounts of refined titanium, gold and radioactive isotopes! aliens!"
meanwhile in another room perplexed and gloomy tech monitor their screens in woe and confusion, whilst listening to the cheers next door...
So the truth comes out! They are planning a rover mission, but just in case their math fails to match up and the rover ends up crashing on the moon, they will just say they were searching for hydrogen.
I hope the folks who work on the various rovers get together periodically and exchange ideas -- a standard data bus, a secure common operating system, reuse of algorithms, joint testing of components... could save time, money, and mistakes.
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
I don't know about extracting H2, and O2, but since Regolith is a pain the ass for the astronauts I'm thinking a rover could be sent to blast away a nice work area for them to arrive and have a regolith free area to set up their moonbase. I'm no rocket scientist though.
I assume here they are referring to either: 1) The problem of the drill staying still and the rover rotating around it. 2) Downward force on the drill lifting the rover up.
With conventional earth-bound drilling these problem are solved in the case of 1: by using multiple counter-rotating bits and in the case of 2: Auger bits, which both remove material and bite into the material at the bottom of the hole with a screw, pulling themselves downward without requiring downward pressure on the drill.
I would certainly think that counter-rotating heads would work on the moon, though use of an auger might depend on the material properties of moon rock.
Ceci n'est pas une signature.
Wider than a mile
I'm crossing you in style someday
You dream maker, you heart breaker
Wherever you're going I'm going your way
Two drifters off to see the world
Theres such a lot of world to see
Were after the same rainbows end
Waiting round the band
My huckleberry friend, Moon Rover
And me
Look up the cost of shipping a kilo of mass to the Moon before you say that. Every kilo used up by a battery adds to the launch cost, and is a kilo not used up by a scientific instrument. And there's a hard upper limit: there are no Saturn-class launchers in the world today, so the whole payload cannot exceed the capacity of the largest Delta Heavy in the inventory.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
It's hard to beat the energy & power density of internal combustion engines. Since there is no air, your propellant is heavier, since you'd need to carry the oxidizer, but I suspect that you'd still have an advantage in range. In The Case for Mars Robert Zubrin has proposed internal combustion Mars rovers that could use CO2 as an oxidizer. (I forget what the fuel is, but it can be made from methane derived from local CO2 and hydrogen.) Also, in the book The Rocket Company an automaker funds a trip to the moon where they use a modified SUV carrying its own oxidizer.
We're whalers on the moon,
We carry a harpoon.
But there ain't no whales So we tell tall tales And sing our whaling tune...
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer." -Adolf Hitler
"We are one Nation, we are one People." -The One 'leader'
From TA: "NASA says it wants to put people on the moon by 2020."
Gotcha! They just admitted that they have never put people on the more before. That whole 1969 bit was just a hoax.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
And what your you using to blast with? I'm sorry, but your leaf blower doesn't work very efficiently at 10^-12 torr. You could use something similar to the ascend rockets they used on the lunar module (that set off the dust clouds that set of the "fake, fake" cries), but the regolith is several feet deep, so you need one hell of a blast there. You're actually better off to coat large areas with a very thin layer of binder, and keep the dust down that way.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
detach the solar panel, leave it at the top, and use a cable?
maybe too many extra complications.
factor 966971: 966971
Not enough sugar in the coffee this morning? The issues of drilling on the moon are nothing you've ever seen on earth, and none are related to the lower gravity. A few facts (I know, you don't bother with them): Your surface temperature fluctuates from -220 C to + 110 C, with 150 C difference being a good guess for most locations. There are no lubricants that will work over that range, and none that work at -220 C. You have no atmosphere to cool your drill motor, or blow the highly abrasive regolith dust off your seals and bearings. You can't drill using the standard slurry approach to move your debris out of the hole. Your nearest spare parts are 300,000 miles away, and there's no one to loosen that lug nut. You have a very limited power supply from solar cells, and any dust you allow to get on the cells you will not be able to remove. For an easy challenge, try digging a hole in the middle of the Antarctic plateau, middle of winter, with a golf cart full of supplies, and a 5 kW generator for power. Remotely controlled.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
Right - then why don't you provide some solutions that work rather than handwaving nonsense?
Helicopters provide counter revolution forces in a wide variety of way, precisely none of which will work on the rover.
For the first, anchors are heavy - and spare weight allowance isn't something the rover has. For the second, how do drive the pitons without encountering the very problems you are driving the pitons to resist?
It isn't nearly as simply as you make out.
Everything is easy when all you have to do is handwave. It gets rather harder when you actually have to do it.
Absolutely...
Since helicopters use atmospheric resistance to maneuver, those tactics don't apply to the Moon, with virtually no atmosphere to use for the tail rotor to counteract tourque. Bzzzt! Wrong answer!
Firing pitons into the Moon to hold the rover down for drilling makes sense except for two points:
- Drilling operations will be limited by how many pitons you carry, and how the firing mechanism works. This also adds weight and defeats the 'lightweight' requirement.
- the mechanism to fire a piton, hold onto it, and then let go adds too much complexity. Not good.
Now you know we you and I aren't working on this project.
I might think the auger idea works, but will the auger bite into rock? What happens with loose debris?
And I have no doubt that a clever drill design will come up. Probably a combination of auger and slow-speed drilling, with more time taken instead of trying to do it too quickly and bouncing the rover around.
Then again, they could lock a wheel and drag it around like a trenching tool.. works on Mars....
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
I don't think blast charges oxidize with the atmosphere do they? Doesn't seem like that would mix fast enough. Torpedoes don't seem to have any trouble. As for regolith, "Portable antitank weapons have become more powerful, more reliable, and more available worldwide since the early 1980s. Many of these weapons are capable of penetrating 20 to 40 inches of armor plate steel" (cite). For that matter, anything that gets all the way from the earth to the moon is going to arrive with plenty of momentum. Maybe they could just drop a DU rod out of the probe before initiating deceleration for the landing?
Solving it in freshman physics has very little to do with solving it with real world hardware that can built within the constraints of time, mass, volume, budget, reliability, etc...
ROTFLMAO. You actually believe this?
And how do you drive those spikes from the rover without encountering the recoil/resistance effects the spikes are supposed to anchor you against in the first place?
As I said, stuff is always simple when you pretend the messy bits of reality can simply be handwaved away.
I'll grant that it's very dark on the dark side of the moon, but without the convection an atmosphere provides, how cold will it actually be? The only heat loss will be through radiation and what (I imagine little) conduction there is between the rover and the ground. If a vacuum keeps my coffee in my thermos hot, how will it be any different on the moon?
IANARS, but I would think a bigger problem would be keeping the thing from overheating.