Posting Publicly Available URL Claimed a "Hack"

Urban Strata writes "Popular mobile phone community HowardForums.com is being hit with take-down notices from MobiTV. At issue is the fact that a HowardForums community member uncovered a publicly accessible URL for MobiTV's television stream. This URL is not encrypted or authenticated in any way, and yet MobiTV sent site owner Howard Chui a cease-and-desist letter for hosting a forum with the public URL, claiming that doing so is equivalent to hacking their service."

Comments

Just FYI

[TripMaster Monkey]

The URLs obtained with this "hack" play just fine in Quicktime as well.

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[Bogtha]

Does MobiTV and Verizon have the right to send a cease and desist letter? Sure

Do they have the right to send a letter asking them to stop? Sure. But this cease and desist letter goes far beyond that, it claims that they are infringing copyrights, trademarks and trade secrets and it claims so under penalty of perjury. Furthermore, they state they have also sent such claims to the ISP, a third-party. I think that is unsupportable and illegal, and I don't believe they have the right to do that. It's libellous and if they take it any further, it's barratry.

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[rucs_hack]

yup, but if they can convince some judge who doesn't understand the issue that it is a hack, it is.

Same thing happened in Bragg v. Linden Labs

[Petey_Alchemist]

...when a Second Life user bought land before it went to auction using a non-linked but publicly accessible URL and he was banned and his assets seized.

http://secondlife.typepad.com/

Some interesting background reading. They settled, but the "hack" question was never answered by the court .

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[McDutchie]

Is it wrong? Yes

No. There is nothing wrong with visiting a publicly available URL. No exceptions.

The URL was not intended to be public and everyone involved knows this. It's like you're saying it's not wrong to burgle someone's house and steal things you don't own because they failed to lock their doors.

Anonymous Karma Whore

[Anonymous Coward]

channel name="MSNBC" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="FOX News" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/8-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Discovery" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/3-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="TLC" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/4-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Animal Planet" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/63-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="NBC Comedy" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1500-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="ESPN Mobile TV" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/4103-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="NBC Sports Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1513-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Lipstick Jungle" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1508-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Maxx Look" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/48-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Toon World TV" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/28-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Access Hollywood" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1515-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Love Laffs" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/4104-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Bloomberg" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/52-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Tim Gunns Guide to Style" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1519-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="The Mic Hip Hop" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/910-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="V40 Hot Hits" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/911-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Totally 80s 90s" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/96-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Double Z Country" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/72-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="RandB Jamz" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/425-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Ritmo Caliente" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/97-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Chaos Extreme" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/913-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Shift Alternative" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/912-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="USA Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1503-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Bravo To Go" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1502-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="SCI FI Pulse Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1501-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Oxygen" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/58-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Discovery Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/53-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="A and E Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/17-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="The History Channel Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/19-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="NBC News Mobile" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/2-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Fashion TV" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/22-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Comedy Time" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/21-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="MAXX SPORTS" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com/50-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="IGN" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/59-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Bombones" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/74-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="CNET" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/23-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="CSPAN" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/30-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="CSPAN2" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/31-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Soulja Boy Tell Em TV" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/4100-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Ataku" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/83-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="D40 Digital Camera" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/1346-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"
channel name="Bank of America" href="rtsp://live.mobitv.com:554/4101-CDMA.sdp" type="video/3gpp"

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[knight24k]

Here is about the best metaphor I can come up with.

You go to visit your local zoo because they have a rare tasmanian devil on display. Entrance fee is $5. You notice on arriving that the back of the cage for this animal is clearly open to the street at the rear of the zoo. Instead of paying your admission you walk around back and look at the rare animal without paying, from the street. The zoo then has you arrested for theft.

That's about as good as I can do.

Re:what about google?

[Alter_3d]

You dont have to use the Google cache. Simply scroll down, past all the "hidden" answers, and the real ones are at the bottom of the page.

No registering, paying, etc, etc, etc

Re:what about google?

[TubeSteak]

The other day I was looking for some bash command help, and the third google result was from http://www.experts-exchange.com./ If you access it directly, it hides the answers and asks you to pay. But from google, you get to the answers directly because of some glitch. That's not a glitch.

Experts-exchange (and many many other forums) filter by user agent... and the GoogleBot gets a free pass.
Otherwise, their content would never show up in the search engine.

Install the user agent switcher in Fire Fox & created a Googlebot entry for your own free pass.
Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; Googlebot/2.1; +http://www.google.com/bot.html)

Am I stealing service by doing this?
Is it "hacking"?

Re:what about google?

[merreborn]

The other day I was looking for some bash command help, and the third google result was from http://www.experts-exchange.com./ If you access it directly, it hides the answers and asks you to pay. But from google, you get to the answers directly because of some glitch.

Actually, it's not a glitch. Experts exchange wants to have their cake and eat it too.

They want to show up in google search results, but they want people to pay for the answers. However, for the relevant text to be included in google's index, they have to make it available on the page for everyone -- they're not allowed to show google different content from what you get when you click on the link. That's called "cloaking", and google has cracked down on it hard for a few years.

So, experts exchange formats their page like this:
The original question
"Pay to see the first answer"
"Pay to see the second answer"
"Pay to see the third answer"
What looks like a giant page footer footer
more footer
more footer
more footer
more footer
more footer
The original question
The actual content of the first answer
The actual content of the second answer
The actual content of the third answer

Here's an example Note the "premium members only" crap at the top, the giant "footer", and the *real* answers at the bottom.

This way, google indexes the real content at the bottom of the page, but most people see the fake content at the top of the page, and the "footer", and give up before scrolling down to the real content at the bottom.

It's kinda scummy.

Re:what about google?

[JUSTONEMORELATTE]

Actually, it's not a glitch. Experts exchange wants to have their cake and eat it too.

They want to show up in google search results, but they want people to pay for the answers. However, for the relevant text to be included in google's index, they have to make it available on the page for everyone -- they're not allowed to show google different content from what you get when you click on the link. That's called "cloaking", and google has cracked down on it hard for a few years.

So, experts exchange formats their page like this:
The original question
"Pay to see the first answer"
"Pay to see the second answer"
"Pay to see the third answer"
What looks like a giant page footer footer
more footer
more footer
more footer
more footer
more footer
The original question
The actual content of the first answer
The actual content of the second answer
The actual content of the third answer
Here's an example Note the "premium members only" crap at the top, the giant "footer", and the *real* answers at the bottom.
This way, google indexes the real content at the bottom of the page, but most people see the fake content at the top of the page, and the "footer", and give up before scrolling down to the real content at the bottom.
It's kinda scummy.

You sir (or maddam) are brilliant. I lack mod points today, so I will instead simply reply and quote everything you said in the hopes of getting more visibility to your hack

We Are Missing the Bigger Picture

[acvh]

Having downloaded the file, which amusingly is still available, and persued its contents, I have the following question: Who the hell watches Lipstick Jungle on a cell phone? Who the hell watches Lipstick Jungle? What IS Lipstick Jungle? Whose mind is so vacant that they have to get a TV fix on their mobile phone?

As for the website itself, their complaint is rather like a bank putting all of their customers' account balances on a webserver, and then complaining when someone looks at someone else's account. Yes, the action is dickish at best, but the fact that it can be carried out is dickisher.

And now the URL is posted all over the internet

[Blackeagle_Falcon]

Did these people learn nothing from the Wikileaks debacle? Or the AACS encryption key mess? Sending cease-and-desist letters and DMCA takedown requests over this sort of information only results in it being distributed more widely and seen by far more people.

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[PlusFiveTroll]

It doesn't fucking matter what the intentions are of the person leaving the sofa..

BZZZT, wrong. Only the owner of the sofa can file charges of theft on on the 'thief'. I cannot file charges on you for stealing my friends car, for example.

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[bkr1_2k]

Public URLs do, in fact, imply consent because they are published (by the domain registry people) when they are created, whether you want them to be or not. Just because you put information on there you don't want public doesn't mean I'm stealing it if I view that information.

I'll grant that this is a gray area and I don't happen to think it's "morally right" to view the service, but that's not the same thing as stealing. I've had cable internet, specifically just internet, and also received television service. I informed the provider that I received tv though I wasn't paying for it and nothing was ever done to remedy the situation. After one notification, I no longer felt any need to justify my use of the television service I didn't order, but wasn't paying for either. Was I stealing?

Obviously the company in the article doesn't want people using the service, but to say those who are using it are stealing is not legally accurate, even if the moral ground is less clear.

That said, the site manager that listed the URL is under no obligation I know of (it is a public URL after all that is listed on multiple locations) to remove the link but he'd probably be wise to do so, if for no other reason than to limit time he'll have to spend in court, "guilty" or not.

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[morgan_greywolf]

It doesn't fucking matter what the intentions are of the person leaving the sofa.. if you picked up the sofa - REGARDLESS OF WHY IT WAS THERE - that's theft. You obtained something you where not otherwise permitted to have. THATS THE FUCKING THEFT. Actually, it's not. Courts have consistently ruled that anything sitting out on the curb is fair game. For one, the ground in front of the curb isn't private property, it's part of what's called the 'right-of-way' -- IOW, it's, in essence, public property. Furthermore, and this is why the courts rule this way, anything sitting out on the curb is assumed to be refuse. Trash. By throwing something away, you're telling the world that you don't want it anymore. And that is implicit permission.

Anyay, whether you 'should' or 'shouldn't' have something isn't so easy to define. Just because someone is making money off of something, that doesn't mean that obtaining that something for free is wrong. Pepsi and Coke make money by putting water into bottles and selling it, yet I can get water almost anywhere for free.

Re:Well, what did you expect?

[squallbsr]

So, it appears to be the same as your Free TV at home (if you have a good antenna) - you know, the Ad supported kind. You watch some digital stream that has Ads, how is it unreasonable to assume that it is not ad supported and free to the public?

In the end, it all boils down to, you make something public on the internet, users assume if there is not a login, it is free. If you don't want something free on the internet, make sure you protect your URLs. How is that so hard to understand and legislate - it isn't stealing because the content provider still has their content. The only thing consumed is bandwidth and server resources, which are always provided for free on publicly accessible URLs.

If you do not want people to leech anything from your servers, you need to ensure that your PUBLIC FACING ON THE INTERNET servers protect their content.

From TDWTF...

[magus_melchior]

So You Hacked Our Site!?

I think someone should trademark the term "Hacking," as people take it to mean both "trespassing online" and "breaching our illusion of security."

So, am I hacking mobitv too?

[HybridJeff]

I reformatted the links to work in Firefox, am I a l33t hacker now too? Fox News MSNBC Discovery TLC Animal Planet NBC Comedy HD - NBC Comedy ESPN Mobile NBC Sports Mobile Lipstick Jungle HD - Lipstick Jungle Maxx Look HD - Maxx Look Toon World TV HD - Toon World TV Access Hollywood HD - Access Hollywood Love Laffs HD - Love Laffs Bloomberg Tim Gunns Guide to Style HD - Tim Gunns Guide to Style The Mic Hip Hop HD - The Mic Hip Hop V40 Hot Hits HD - V40 Hot Hits Totally 80s 90s HD - Totally 80s 90s Double Z Country HD - Double Z Country RandB Jamz HD - RandB Jamz Chaos Extreme HD - Chaos Extreme Shift Alternative HD - Shift Alternative USA Mobile HD - USA Mobile Bravo Mobile HD - Bravo Mobile SciFi Mobile HD - SciFi Mobile Oxygen HD - Oxygen Discovery Mobile HD - Discovery Mobile A&E Mobile HD - A&E Mobile The History Channel Mobile HD - The History Channel Mobile NBC News Mobile HD - NBC News Mobile Fashion TV Comedy Time HD - Comedy Time Maxx Sports HD - Maxx Sports IGN