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Mega-Cash Prizes and Revolutionary Science

Bruce G Charlton writes "A new paper in Medical Hypotheses suggests that very big cash prizes could specifically be targeted to stimulate 'revolutionary' science. Usually, prizes tend to stimulate 'applied' science — as in the most famous example of Harrison's improved clock solving the 'longitude' problem. But for prizes successfully to stimulate revolutionary science the prizes need to be: 1. Very large (and we are talking seven figure 'pop star' earnings, here) to compensate for the high risk of failure when tackling major scientific problems, 2. Awarded to scientists at a young enough age that it influences their behavior in (about) their mid-late twenties — when they are deciding on their career path, and: 3. Include objective and transparent scientometric criteria, to prevent the prize award process being corrupted by 'political' incentives. Such mega-cash prizes, in sufficient numbers, might incentivize some of the very best young scientists to make more ambitious, long-term — but high-risk — career choices. The real winner of this would be society as a whole; since ordinary science can successfully be done by second-raters — but only first-rate scientists can tackle the toughest scientific problems."

19 of 134 comments (clear)

  1. Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    A lottery for people who ARE good at math!

    1. Re:Finally! by fastest+fascist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And the real losers, presumably, would be the scientists who took the gamble and failed.

  2. Don't discount older people by davidwr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Restricting mega-prizes to the young may eliminate groundbreaking work by mid-career and early-second-career scientists.

    Not only that, but it sends the wrong message to our children: Once you hit 30 you aren't worth as much.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Don't discount older people by plopez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seriously, this is blatant ageism. You never know who will solve the problems at hand. Also, what they are speaking of sounds like 'big science' (i.e. seven figure prizes). Wouldn't older and more experienced scientists be better at organizing larger projects? Wouldn't they have the experience needed to mentor younger scientists, opening up a pipeline for the next generation?

      Bad idea. It should be open to any and all.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    2. Re:Don't discount older people by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      But it would sure open a market for young scientists. Imagine an ad akin to "Wanted: Young scientist, doesn't need to know jack but must be under 25 so we can cash in. Job perks include having a great invention named after you, since you'll officially be the one who discovered it".

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      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Don't discount older people by ShakaUVM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Worse, as the summary says: "...very best young scientists to make more ambitious, long-term -- but high-risk -- career choices"

      And they'll do this only by awarding the mega-prize to people who make the breakthrough.

      It's like expecting smart people to want to play the lottery. It's smart people don't base a career on a 0.1% chance of making $1M, with a 99.9% chance of $0. They might do it if it's easy enough to do in their garage on their free time (i.e., the lottery ticket is free), but it's too risky to expect smart people that understand math to enter as a career field.

      On the contrary, just expanding NSF funding for researchers in the specific direction, with smaller prizes for specific endeavors, is probably the best way to go. I might not have ever left college (I was a researcher for years) if the pay was good and I had an interesting task to solve.

    4. Re:Don't discount older people by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 4, Funny

      On the other hand, I doubt many young people would be inspired to go into a career in scientific research by the thought of winning vast wealth and fame at the age of 75.

    5. Re:Don't discount older people by Bowling+Moses · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah it's ageism. Regardless of that fact, it's also targeting the wrong age group. There are awards in science for "young investigators" to recognize achievement (ie provide funding) and also to recognize that a scientist who's been in the field for 20-40 years has a name and a better chance at getting the increasingly scarce funding. So I guess in limited forms ageism might not necessarily be a bad thing. However, those "young investigator" awards are for people who are typically 10 years older than what this prize is for. That's what I really don't get. A scientist in their mid 20's is a junior to mid-level Ph.D. student. One in their late 20's might have just got their Ph.D. You only have some control over your career at this very early stage. You decide broadly what area of research you want to work in and what lab to join (if you're extremely good it'll be entirely up to you). After that, you might have the pick of a small number of projects. Very few grad students are advanced enough to introduce a project of their own to a lab and a negligible number of them will actually get permission from their advisor. Someone who has a Ph.D. already but wants to broaden their range of expertise will join another scientist's lab in a related field and will usually introduce new techniques and projects to that lab. Without being able to read the /.'d article it seems like they should be targeting the late 20's to mid-30's scientists. Even then, a more appropriate award might be at most low six figures. Managing a seven-figure grant is a major chore and it would be expected to run a whole lab for several years.

    6. Re:Don't discount older people by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So in the realm of groundbreaking works: If you are over 30 and no breakthroughs has surfaced so far then likely they never will.

      Of course, that's based on the unsupported assumption that science is only valuable when it's "ground breaking".
    7. Re:Don't discount older people by Vornzog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Restricting mega-prizes to the young may eliminate groundbreaking work by mid-career and early-second-career scientists.

      Not only that, but it sends the wrong message to our children: Once you hit 30 you aren't worth as much.

      I don't think this point can be over emphasized enough in this discussion.

      The author is aiming this prize at me. I went to college on a academic full ride, cranked through a PhD in chemistry in 4 years on a hot project that got national media attention, and am currently trying to figure out what my career is going to be. I'm 27, which is extremely young for a PhD.

      I am the wrong person to aim this at. You want to throw money at someone, you need to be targeting my PhD adviser. She has connections that I can't dream of, a funding rate that is basically unheard of, deserves a big chunk of credit for my success, has published major work in two very different fields, and, most importantly, she's currently in the prime of her career - age 45. She has now left the university and started a company - it's the only way for her career to continue to move forward with the grant situation as bad as it is right at the moment.

      It takes a very long time to establish yourself as a superstar in the world of science. Nobody does it by age 30. The best of the best, with all of the breaks going their way, might do it by 35 - with the caveat that they have to specialize to such an extent that they can't even consider going after a big prize like this unless it is perfectly suited to their field. And unless you are already a on the path to becoming a superstar, you won't get a sniff of big money like we are discussing here.

      Better yet - don't throw that money at anyone at all. Inevitably, some of it would stick, but far more resources would be wasted competing for it.

      I'm rocking the boat in a localized fashion right now. I'm making a name for myself by being the programming/database guy in a room full of biologists. I'm don't have to the smartest guy in the room - I have access to an entirely different set of tools than anyone else does, and I can communicate with the biologists in ways that a normal programmer would never be able to, allowing me to make a huge impact fresh off of my PhD.

      If you really want see progress made, without the high risk/high reward gambles, look to make progress in the gaps between fields. Engineers collaborating with traditional academic scientists. PhDs in two major fields, instead of just one. Collaborative projects between industry and government, academia and industry. Corporate think tanks like we used to have - really good R&D in industry is hard to come by these days, but many of our best advancements in the last 50 years came from these sorts of institutions. Improved math/comp sci training for scientists and engineers (I don't care how much you had, more would probably have done you good). A major, national-involvement project to tackle, on par with putting a man on the moon - real renewable energy looks like a good candidate right now.

      This is the future of America, and most of the rest of the first world. We have outsourced our blue-collar jobs, the white-collar jobs are slowly going international, and our high standard of living looks unattractive when someone in India will do your job for half the cost, even if they only do it half as well.

      The way forward is to move faster, drive innovation, reward the people that are superstars (regardless of age) with incentive packages that make them want to work harder. America has had this sort of system in place a few times before in history, and we have attracted the best and the brightest, both domestic and foreign, to get involved and make huge strides in many fields. Progress is made on the margins - any attempt to maintain the status quo or fund a regression to the mean kills us slowly. Throwing big money at science keeps mediocre talent in, wasting resources, when they should throw in the towel and move on to

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      -V-

      Who can decide a priori? Nobody.
      -Sartre

  3. Disagree by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The prize system works fairly well for engineering because at the end you have the prize, a product you can sell, and a whole bunch of publicity. Corporations are interested in investing in that.

    Science, particularly basic science, is different. Corporations are not nearly as interested in investing in something that won't develop into a product in the foreseeable future. For basic science you need money to replace the corporate sponsors: money up front. There are plenty of young scientists who will happily do great research, they just need some funding to get started. The granting agencies are the ones who have to be trained to take more (intelligent) risks.

    1. Re:Disagree by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a young scientist myself, there's no way I'm going to do research for ten years (in between shifts at McDonalds) to MAYBE win a big prize sometime in the future. I'll go work on applied stuff for industry long before that.

      The preliminary data thing is a catch 22 that I've already gotten caught in. In order to have a shot at a grant you've got to have data showing your technique works. But in order to get that data you pretty much have to perfect your technique. But if your technique already works, why do you need funding to develop it?

  4. Opertunity Cost? by DavidShor · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Perhaps it's not efficient, from a societal point of view, to have thousands of the most brilliant people in the world doing duplicate work? Consider how much better society would be if they were each individually working on something different.

    Not only that, but keep in mind that these bright people were going to do something else before they decided to take up the prize. Is the US economy better off because a genius physicist came up with a lunar robot, when he would have discovered a new type of nuclear fusion had he not worked on the prize?

  5. A pile of hoopla by sam_handelman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Firstly, science is a gradual process. The "great man" theory of scientific progress has no more merit than the "great man" theory of history. It is in fact *not* true that those who make the very most important discoveries are better than other scientists (The fools! They mocked my research!), and their advances, even when seemingly revolutionary, are predicated on the gradual accumulation of knowledge through careful, thoughtful and reproducible work. This does not mean that all scientists are equally competent, or that financial or political concerns do not sometimes promote inferior scientists.

      Secondly, those best qualified to decide which avenues of research will bear fruit are those doing the science, not someone with prize money. Not only are we best qualified to decide what to do - we are best qualified to decide that we are the ones to do it. You may think that one of those young engineers doing successful, and, yes, profitable work on reducing power consumption in laptops could have made super-rope for a space elevator instead, and there are individuals for whom this is true (see next point,) but most of the time, people at this level of skill and education pursue the questions that interest them, and on which they have some confidence that they can usefully contribute. If we were in this for the money we'd have had MBAs in half the time it took to get the PhD.

      Now, there is a legitimate problem. You can get private money to fund research in applied science, but the government (or some agency which does not expect any return on each, individual investment) has to fund basic research, for basically the reasons stated in the article. This does not mean we need huge "prizes". What we need are grants - which are in short supply at the moment thanks, and I'm willing to be partisan because the facts are brazenly clear in this case, to the stupid, short-sighted and wasteful policies of the current administration.

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    The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
  6. For people bad at math... by isdnip · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a really stupid proposal. It is like the lottery, which promises big payoffs but is really a tax on people who are bad at math. Most people lose. If there were mega-prizes for science, then people would have to decide whether to go for the big prize, knowing that there's a >99% chance of getting zilch, or doing something more likely to pay the bills. Do we want to turn science, normally a cooperative exercise, into a casino game?

    On the other hand this idea will go over well among the flat earth crowd. They don't do science, but they think high-stakes prizes are the only way to get out of the trailer park.

  7. It usually costs more to win than it's worth by Animats · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It usually costs more to win such prizes than it's worth.

    • The Kremer Prize for human-powered flight, £50,000, was won by Paul MacReady in 1977. He lost money on the project.
    • The X-Prize (space) paid out $10 million, but cost $100 million to win.
    • The DARPA Grand Challenge paid out $2 million, but the major teams spent far more than that, if the work by corporate sponsors is included.
  8. Bad idea, misunderstands scientists by Iowan41 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Scientists are motivated by discovery. Fund their -projects- and they will happily work away. I don't believe it will be possible to keep such suggested prizes free from political correctness and Survivor-style political corruption. Who is a first-rater? Who is a second-rater? Edison was a failure. So was Einstein. Especially at the young ages described. One simply never knows who might discover something. DARPA and X-prizes are -far- more effective uses of the money, and models for applying the money.

  9. Completely and Utterly Wrong by bperkins · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do we need to raise the stakes any higher in the pursuit of basic science?

    What budding young scientists need is support to do their research while they haven't produced results, not place a pot of gold at then end of the rainbow.

    If one pursues the academic tract, you need to get into grad school, secure a good advisor, get put on good research, get a decent faculty position, get funding, attract decent grad students and then perform

    The number of people who get this far in challenging fields tends to be very low, and a lots of bright, smart people don't make it.

    The creation of prizes is very attractive for the grant givers, since it allows you to attact many more people than your funding would normally allow, but don't try to convince us that it's a real way of funding science.

  10. IAAS by Compuser · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This may work in disciplines where a singular achievement is key. So prizes for proving a math theorem that stood for a century are quite reasonable and are already done. They do not serve as incentives for scientific effort because the effort is prohibitive intellectually rather than financially. Putting up a prize is just a way of saying: this problem is really important. So if you've got a vision and lots of money but no mad intellectual skillz then by all means, put up a prize.
    However this will not work for basic research in natural sciences (physics, biology, chemistry, etc). The reason is that there are no singular achievements. Experimental measurements are often not trusted until they are repeated by several groups and usually these other groups add key details to the original measurement. Likewise, theories are often explaining the same phenomena from different angles (schrodinger and heisenberg versions of quantum mechanics, Landau and BCS explanations of superconductivity, etc). So large prizes are only likely to sow discord in those communities not foster more productivity.