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FBI Hid Patriot Act Abuses

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "Wired is reporting that the FBI hid Patriot Act abuses with retroactive and flawed subpoenas, and used them to illegally acquire phone and credit card records. There were at least 11 retroactive, 'blanket' subpoenas that were signed by top counter-terrorism officials, some of which sought information the FBI is not allowed to have. The FBI's Communication Analysis Unit also had secret contracts with AT&T, Verizon and MCI, and abused National Security Letters by issuing subpoenas based on fake emergencies."

20 of 243 comments (clear)

  1. And? by pedestrian+crossing · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many people will lose their jobs/careers/freedom for these transgressions?

    None.

    --
    A house divided against itself cannot stand.
    1. Re:And? by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That would require them admitting they did wrong. It's much easier to claim national security is at risk.

    2. Re:And? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Insightful
      How many people will lose their jobs/careers/freedom for these transgressions?

      None.

      Funny you should say this. I'm getting ready to write a piece on how it seems more and more, incompetency and failure are rewarded while honesty and hard work are denigrated.

      Using this administration is much too easy. Look at all the generals who have been honest about their assessments of how poorly run the occupation of Iraq has been, the mismanagement and theft of billions of dollars, the lack of equipment for troops and a whole host of other issues irrespective of the lies that were used to justify the occupation. Where are those generals now? Forced into retirement.

      How about Katrina? "You're doing a heck of a job, Brownie." Brownie completely fails at his job and gets rewarded by being a consultant to examine why he failed doing his previous job.

      Outside the administration, look at Countrywide Financial or Citigroup. Countrywide's CEO uses insider information to sell his stock before the subprime mess hits and makes millions. Investors are left holding the bag, wondering if the company is going to go bankrupt.

      Citigroup's former CEO, Charlie Prince, got multi-million bonuses for running the company into the ground, wiping out years worth of profits and having to have the company rescued by foreign governments lest it collapsed.

      HP, Enron, and a whole host of other companies follow the same pattern. Reward the incompetent failures with buckets of money and act as if they're doing people a favor, all the while, the folks who do the real work, the grunts on the front line, get the shaft. Every time.

      Naw, I'm not bitter. What would make you think that?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    3. Re:And? by Gewalt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The part that bothers me about the PATRIOT Act is that our forefathers would be considered terrorists.
      They were terrorists, and damn proud of it too.

      What bothers me about your comment is you would consider our founding fathers terrorism to be shameful.
      --
      Modding Trolls +1 inciteful since 1999
    4. Re:And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      They were seditionists but I wouldn't call them terrorists - they started a militia war against an occupying army but AFAIK they didn't target civilians.

      Not directly perhaps, but they frequently did not wear uniforms and hid among civilians, putting them at risk. At the very least, that made them "unlawful combatants" by modern terminology. Also, the boatload of tea dumped into Boston harbour was hardly a military target.

    5. Re:And? by networkBoy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have a friend that said something to the effect of it's vaguely like home. He said it with sadness. He emigrated from Russia (proper) after the wall fell. Some of the other folks I know from the Ukraine have said similar things. They all agree that politically it is not as bad as it was there, but we are marching slowly and relentlessly that direction.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    6. Re:And? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Informative
      Could you link to some sources? This is an interesting statement.


      Follow this link about halfway down to see a list of officers, including generals, as of late 2005, who were forced out because of their honest views. Since that time, others, including the most recent resignation of Admiral Fallon, can be added to the list.

      Certainly there are those in the above list who retired rather than wait to be forced out but the concept was the same: these were people who had long, distinguished track records of getting the job done but when they gave their honest opinions, they were told to leave or were forced out.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  2. Well by ShakaUVM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, I guess we no longer need to argue back and forth over the "slippery slope" of giving the government access to stuff it shouldn't have access to.

    The case is closed - the government will abuse any power it has access to.

    As Bruce Schneider says, what we do not need is security at the expense of liberty and privacy - we need liberty, security, *and* privacy.

  3. And the beat goes on. by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know why the FBI even bothers to try to hide its wrongdoing...after all, this administration has made it very clear that they are above the law, and that anyone who joins them in their abuses can enjoy a comparable freedom from responsibility.

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  4. This is why we have the second amendment by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So - all you guys with guns, who maintain that they can protect us from a corrupt government. Where are you? We need some protecting from a corrupt government.

  5. Re:Needed with 1 in 300 being a terrorist by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Needed with 1 in 300 being a terrorist So what they're essentially saying is that it must be true that out of a typical high school graduating class of 1,000 or, 30 people -- the equivalent of an entire classroom of kids, is a terrorist. (Just using the high school as an example to show scale, don't mean to imply anything about age or whatnot).

    Well, fsck. Guess I'll have to quit my job, move to Montana and live out in the middle of the woods where no one can find me...wait? What did you say? The Unabomber. Sh*t. Time to move to Australia. Is there a big demand for sysadmins in Australia?

  6. With great power comes great responsibility by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No one is seriously in favor of wiping out all security and simply letting crime happen as it wills. There is a reason we need the FBI, military, and local and state police departments. We all agree that crime prevention and the provision of justice is one service that government must provide. Otherwise we would live in anarchy, and even though the thought of vigilante justice is attractive to some, we for the most part believe that their must be a social framework upon which we want to build our culture. This necessitates a government and the responsibilities both of and to it.

    To that end, the expansion of police powers at the top levels of the government is not necessarily a bad thing. When we look at 9/11 and the failure of communication between various law enforcement agencies, it is clear that we cannot have a law enforcement system where one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. The Patriot Act, for all its faults, is trying to address this need by opening up and sharing the law enforcement databases so that vital information is not overlooked or ignored simply because it is not available. The implementation has left a lot to be desired, though.

    When we start to expand federal powers, such as like and under the Patriot Act, great care must be taken to provide oversight capable of taking the power wielder to task. Normally, you'd expect this to be Congress. But much more fundamentally, you would expect the President (the Chief Executive) to show some restraint and good sense in the execution of the expanded powers. What we have unfortunately seen is that the President has not seen fit to restrain the DHS and has not forced common sense and common decency as policy. Rather, the departments have run wild creating new and more intrusive rights for themselves at the expense of American freedoms.

    We say we are the beacon of the world, but we have not lived up to that moniker here at home, and we have destroyed our good name abroad. We must start our transformation immediately back into that beacon, and we must start at home.

  7. Re:Happens all the time. by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The point of all this blanket monitoring is not to secure convictions of suspected terrorists. The old FISA law was completely adequate for that purpose.

    The purpose here is to make the American public toe the line, and for that purpose, convictions are not necessary. The mere threat of action, with the associated social embarrassment and financial hardship, will do nicely.

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  8. Whats the point anymore by scubamage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously, Clinton gets a bj in office and gets impeached. Bush recklessly gets us into a war for no factual reason, destroys the economy, slashes and burns the constitution and nothing happens. The FBI abuses the patriot act, the NSA initiates a domestic spying program, and nothing happens. WTF America? Don't any of you have any pride or perspective anymore?

    1. Re:Whats the point anymore by stinerman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The reason this happens can be easily explained with a short excerpt of a good book by a man named Douglas Adams:

      "I come in peace", it said, adding after a long moment of further grinding, "take me to your Lizard."

      Ford Prefect, of course, had an explanation for this...

      "It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

      "You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

      "No", said Ford, ... "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

      "Odd", said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

      "I did", said Ford. "It is."

      "So", said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"

      "It honestly doesn't occur to them", said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

      "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

      "Oh yes", said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

      "But", said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

      "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard", said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."

  9. Re:Needed with 1 in 300 being a terrorist by molex333 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This is my favorite. Marine Staff Sgt. Daniel Brown was blocked from flying while on his way home from an 8-month deployment in Iraq. He was listed as a suspected terrorist due to a previous incident in which gunpowder was detected on his boots, most likely a residue of a previous tour in Iraq. I was actually held for 2 hours once because one of the people in airport security because I smelt like gasoline. I was returning home from a business trip and I had to fill up a rental car with gas. There was some gasoline residue on my shoes. Do I really need to be searched and treated like a criminal for filling up a car with gas?

    --
    Somewhere in a dark place you will find:
    www.m1
  10. Re:telco immunity vindicated? by timeOday · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is why i felt the telcos deserve some immunity - they were illegally requested to do things in a way that may have appeared valid to their legal counsel.
    If so, they didn't break the law and their prosecution at trial will fail. So why do they need blanket immunity?
  11. Re:Needed with 1 in 300 being a terrorist by Jimmy+King · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sadly, that sounds about accurate. A co-worker of my wife has a husband who is doing federal time and is labeled as a domestic terrorist. You know what he did? He and a couple friends tried to blow up a port-a-potty in the middle of the night.

    Stupid? yep. Irresponsible? Yep. Terrorism? Only if damned near everyone I knew in highschool is a terrorist for doing similarly stupid and destructive crap.

  12. Re:telco immunity vindicated? by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If so, they didn't break the law and their prosecution at trial will fail. So why do they need blanket immunity?

    The argument goes something like this:
    • Deep in their hearts, the morons at the top believed what they were doing was right, and just, and God was on their side
    • Using secret and scary tactics which the public isn't legally allowed to know the details of, they requested information
    • Under the secret and scary tactics, non-compliance means you support terrorism and can get jailed
    • Therefore, those who complied were acting both legally and justly because, after all, God was on our side

    The claim is that if companies had the right/obligation to say something to the effect of "Hmmm ... that sounds awfully illegal, can I consult my lawyer" then government could never effectively fight terrorism and keep the price of oil low. Therefore, since they should just roll over and do what they're asked, they should be immune from prosecution after the fact, because the government knew best. If, along the way, the telcos offered even more information that was legal/required, well, they were just anxious to help us in our noble quest.

    And, if they tell you what they've been up to, then the terrorists will know what our capabilities are, and we'll never catch them.

    It really is an astonishingly scary example of exactly why the erosion of the checks and balances that everyone said would happen, were a bad idea in the first place. The government gave themselves sweeping (and, arguably unconstitutional) powers after 9/11 -- at the time, everyone said it would lead to abuses. It has.

    The current strategy of the government is to prevent it from coming under scrutiny, and to ensure those that they recruited to help with this stuff have no consequences -- because if you were allowed to know everything that would happen, you'd be appalled and they'd look like even more like people who ran rough shod over the laws. They don't want everyone to know what they've been doing.

    Cheers
    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  13. Just a thought... by AnotherUsername · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Komityet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti translates to Committee for State Security which is eerily the same name as the Department of Homeland Security. For those who do not bother with changing the full name to the acronym, the Komityet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti is more commonly(at least in the United States) known as the KGB.

    Just a thought.

    --
    I don't like Linux. This doesn't make me a troll.