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100-Year-Old Electric Car Design Makes a Comeback
CNet's Green Tech Blog is reporting that Detroit Electric plans to release a small number of cars based around a car designed nearly 100 years ago. Detroit Electric is a joint venture between Santa Rosa, CA-based electric transportation specialist, Zap and China's Youngman motors. "Back in 1917, a Detroit Electric cost anywhere from $1,775 to $2,375--in other words, fit for the proletarian or plutocrat. The cars could go 65 miles to 100 miles on a battery charge, but only go at speeds ranging from 6 miles per hour to 25 mph."
In the essay "Calvary in the Age of the Autarch" (collected in Castle of Days ) Gene Wolfe explains why in his far-future science-fiction epic The Book of the New Sun he had battles fought on horseback with some kind of genetically modified horse. They reproduce for you, they don't break down as stubbornly as machines (and can be used as dog chow), and they can graze instead of needing processed petrochemicals. I find that an intriguing notion, and I wonder when genetic engineering will get to the point that we can create new species to order.
I think this gets posted to every /. article that even tangentially refers to electric vehicles.
Conspiracies are interesting but in the end the Prius sort of proved that while there is a chunk of the relatively affluent who will buy electric cars the consumer gestalt as a whole was never waiting with baited breath only to have their hopes dashed by Big Oil or any other conspiracy faves.
Laborare Est Orare
Is like the equivalent of around $50k today, easily. Fords were selling for in the $250 range IIRC... So I think it is optimistic to say it was an 'affordable' vehicle.
Basically sounds like about the equivalent of a golf cart with a big battery load. Back then something like that would have been pretty cool, and 25MPH was about top speed on the roads of that day anyhow.
It is cute, but technologically? Not that interesting, lol.
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
The Zap electric scooters and skateboards are much less annoying than the gas-powered, noise-polluting versions. Also, I am given to understand that the Sparrow 3-wheeled EV is making a comeback.
Militant Agnostic: "I don't know, and damn it, neither do you!"
This particular design is simply a publicity stunt design. It doesn't have anything at all to do with the car they intend to produce for the consumer beyond the fact that both are cars and electrically powered.
As I stated before this isn't so much an article as it is advertising.Laborare Est Orare
NICE looking vehicle. Slow, but hey - it beats the fuck out of shlepping some gus guzzling death monster three blocks to pick ip a six pack and a pack of smokes... I'd drive what Leno's got. It looks like it could deal with some dodgey street conditions as well - and that'll be important because peak oil == peak asphalt. Sure: take your hydrogen powered Ferrari - it's not going to get very far when streets are dusty scrub-board horse tracks. Cars in 50 years will be lightweight with a high clearance, relatively narrow large wheels (think seriously heavy duty bike tires), and slow. And THAT'S if you actually own a car.
Most people won't - too expensive and not enough of a need.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
It doesn't seem completely implausible to imagine that, in a future with significant advances, an engineered creature will be the optimum mode of transport. I suspect, however, that the most it will share with a horse is the name.
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More German troops froze to death and were killed by disease than were killed by bullets. They were riding on horses because Germany was having a hell of a time supplying them and they were getting their asses kicked by the Allies.
Let's move to the ecological paradise or the early 19th century, people in Europe and America weren't dying too much of disease and cold (at least if you could get clean water.) You were just walking though mud and horse shit up to you knees, or dying of cancer at 40 from a atmosphere constantly polluted by wood and coal smoke.
I'll take our media cluster-fuck-slash-ecological apocalypse anytime.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Circa 1900, Ferry Porsche developed what has been regarded as the world's first hybrid car. See: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/11/09/070253.html. The issues with Diesel are the glow plugs have to be used in colder weather starts when the combustion chamber cools for a longer period (requires more energy) and the torque required to turn over the engine (due to the high compression ratios used in diesel engines) is greater. This eats more electricity form the battery in conditions where lots of starts, stops are done.
"Question everything, including this!" - http://technoracle.blogspot.com/
1) Companies can't magically increase their production capacity on a whim. Life isn't SimCity, you can't just plop down a Factory and have it start producing parts immediately. It costs a large amount of money and a large amount of time to create this capacity. When you're building something complex like an automobile which requires components from a multitude of suppliers, this is infinitely more true, and you don't even have the ability to control whether they decide to increase capacity or not.
2) Hype means nothing if it can't be converted into sales. Hype is only useful when the item itself cannot be purchased and interest must be maintained until it can -- Segway is a good example. Once the product is actually in the market, sacrificing a sale for the "hype" of the item being hard to find is a losing proposition because anyone who becomes enamored of the product due to this "hype" is not going to be able to actually buy one, and anyone who was already on board with buying it may become disillusioned with the product. Trading a sale for "hype" is a bad idea.
3) You're insane if you think either Toyota or Nintendo are deliberately limiting supply when there are already people lining up waiting to buy one. They are production limited, and they have zero reason to want to be limited, but that is just the reality.
The enemies of Democracy are
They mention that the Prius batteries are warrantied for eight years, but don't mention that they're only ever depleted to 40-60% of their total charge to preserve battery life
Yes, but they also go through more charge/discharge cycles; PHEV batteries are stressed more. I edited the wiki to reflect your criticism and this fact.
They talk about cheaper, longer-lasting batteries with high energy density.
Cheaper, not yet. Safe and long lasting, yes, you can get them. If you want low volume, your only option, really, is to buy DeWalt power packs and dissect them for the A123 cells, and that'll run you about $2/Wh. However, if you buy in bulk, you can get batteries from any of a dozen or so automotive battery makers for notably less (except for AltairNano, whos batteries in bulk still cost around $2/Wh).
Great! But they also have less than 10% the energy density of lead-acid batteries, and the cost is prohibitive.
Not necessarily. The EEStor supercapacitors due out this year are to have several times the energy density of *li-ion*. Several teams are working on nanotube supercapacitors with the energy density of li-ion. This is all covered on the page.
They then go on to talk about the cost of running a car based solely on the cost to charge, ignoring the cost of periodically replacing the battery.
Incorrect. Maintenance costs are also discussed on the page.
The cheapest car I've seen with a decent range is the Th!nk City
Th!nk isn't particularly cheap, and its stats are pretty lousy (~60mph top speed, for example). You mentioned Aptera; it's much better performing and cheaper. There's also the MiEV (minivan-styling) and MiEV sport (style like a cross between a Prius and a VW beetle) ($24-25k), the VentureOne (tandem two seater, automatically tilts into turns like a motorcycle) ($25k), and about a dozen more due-out-soon in the $20-35k range. The only thing that the $20-35k rangers don't have is >120 mi or so range unless they're PHEVs. The batteries, not yet being in mass production, are too expensive for that. In five years or so, that won't be the case, and you should easily get 200-250 miles range in that price range.
That was either the start of something bad or the end of something stupid.
The speed and range of gasoline-powered cars was higher. It was hard to tell, though, because tire failure back then was so common people spent half their time patching or changing them.
I wonder what improvements could be made to the machine given modern materials and technology. A top speed of 40 mph and a range of 50 miles, for example, would make it a really good choice for a lot of basic city driving. My daily trip to work, all my shopping and a significant part of my social life...probably 90% of my transportation needs...would fall within those parameters. I'm sure a lot of people could say the same.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
It makes sense that the oil industry would try to stop the electric car, because Americans are attracted to the idea of helping the environment and lowering their car repair costs (commuting an hour each way in stop-and-go traffic puts a hurting on most cars).
if the electric car idea were allowed to take off the oil companies would have lost lose $$billions and the electric car industry would have been at a mature point right now, rather than the current situation of oil companies having us all by the short hairs while as the price of oil skyrockets, and us discussing 100-year-old electric car designs.
Not trying to avoid all that would be a pretty stupid move -- and I don't think they are stupid.
I can't speak for the whole movie since I didn't see all of it, but the part I saw was really fascinating. They had interviews with this guy who developed a better car battery, and was really surprised when the car-makers bought his patent and then sat on it (surprise!). It had interviews with owners of the electric cars who just loved them, and mechanics who loved to work on them because they finally were not covered in grease at the end of the day. They had interviews with people who got calls from Senators warning that if the electric car idea was not stopped then the Senator would "declare war on them". They had the video of people holding vigils outside the lots holding the electric car and promising the companies millions (the prices of all the cars added up, combined with the money that people were prepared to spend to get the cars) if they people could only buy the companies. And they had video of the companies crushing the cars rather than selling them. All in all, it was pretty damning and showed that some very powerful people did not want this to happen. The actual people who got to lease the cars (they were never for sale) loved them, but when the lease was up they had to give the cars back and they were pretty heartbroken that they were not given the option to buy the cars.