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India Votes Against OOXML

harsha_c sends in a local Indian perspective on the vote against Microsoft's OOXML ahead of the March 29 deadline. Of 19 companies participating, only 5 voted in favor of OOXML. "It was the ultimate battle for control over global IT standard for documents — between Microsoft-promoted OOXML and Sun and IBM-backed Open Document Format. It was played out between Indian IT giants, namely Infosys, Wipro, TCS supported by Nasscom on one side and the global IT biggies like IBM, Sun Microsystems, Red Hat backed by te IITs, IIMs and IISc on the other, on their respective positions on Microsoft's OOXML standard. Microsoft understandably expressed its disspointment. 'While we are disappointed with the decision of the BIS committee, we are encouraged by the support from NASSCOM.'

11 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. "One standard" vs "multiple standards" by Adaptux · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There is a lot of rhetorics around "one standard" vs "multiple standards". A major reason for this is the ISO/IEC rules which way that there should not be "contradicting" standards, while in reality this rule is not generally followed.

    In fact facilitating technical progress requires that the "no contradicting standards" rule cannot be strictly enforced.

    In this situation however there is a serious problem. Because of Microsoft's dominant market position, if OOXML gets ISO/IEC approval, that will probably kill ODF. The problem with this is that this kills investments in ODF. If Microsoft is allowed to get away with this, the net result will be a chilling effect on all investments in non-Microsoft standards.

    1. Re:"One standard" vs "multiple standards" by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 5, Insightful
      OOXML cant kill ODF, because ODF is open, and OOXML isnt.People who want to guarantee access to their documents in perpetuity (eg legitimate governments) cannot use OOXML because it cannot meet their needs. It is full of rabbit holes.

      It may take a while for the smoke and mirrors to clear, but in the end, the truth will out.

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    2. Re:"One standard" vs "multiple standards" by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsofts game is not to promote OOXML, it is to delay and confuse the world wide adoption of any standard. The status quo is worth billions to them yearly as well as being a tool to promote other products. They fight to preserve that. I also find it hard to imagine anyone supporting OOXML for any reason beyond payment from Microsoft. It might be a promise of business investment or Gates foundation aid for a country rather than hookers and blow for an individual but it is still all about getting payment from Microsoft.

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  2. Microsoft's own fault by nguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    OOXML sucks technically, but that's not even the real problem. The real problem is Microsoft's waffling on making the standard open. If they had unequivocally placed the standard and all necessary patents in the public domain and committed to keeping it stable, more people might vote for it.

  3. Re:Hooray! An honest nation! by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm Anti-Microsoft, Pro-Linux, Pro-F/OSS, Pro-Open Standards, all that.

    But just because someone is against Microsoft on this issue doesn't mean they are 'honest' or honorable with their intent or motivation.

    India is a growing IT powerhouse. When Microsoft provides the basis for participation in IT products and services, it goes without saying that they have influence in your success or failure. It may well be that India's motivation is simply to help Microsoft become irrelevant so that their potential is no longer dependent on Microsoft's will. After all, Microsoft is an American company and as such is subject to influence of the U.S. government. You can see that there's plenty of reason to mistrust Microsoft.

  4. Doesn't Solve the Fundamentals by segedunum · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I applaud the moves in recent times to give us standards within the field of office documents that we can all work with, it doesn't solve the fundamental problems. Chasing after Microsoft, trying to get ISO committees to reject OOXML and trying to get governments to mandate proper standards (a worthy goal, as IT has so very few) is, unfortunately, a saga destined to never end. The reason for this is that Microsoft has the dominant office suite in the world today held in place by the platform they control (Windows), they can mandate any formats they like and they can keep going back to the ISO to get a puppet standard through.

    If IBM and others are as serious as people like Rob Weir seem to be then I strongly suggest they stop being chicken shits after the way in which they capitulated OS/2 in the face of Windows, start funding a really viable alternative to Windows and start really getting just what is required. This would be a desktop operating system that would circumvent the OEM channels Microsoft controls by being given away freely so that everybody, including OEMs, can install it free of Microsoft's control, and it will be a desktop good enough in terms of developers' tools and installation so software can get to users. With enough effort then you'd definitely carve out a market large enough to make it viable, and you'd then have an office suite with enough of an installed base. Governments and other organisations would then pick it up as a result.

    Winging about OOXML isn't going to get anybody anywhere, sadly. It's only maintaining the status quo.

    1. Re:Doesn't Solve the Fundamentals by stoicfaux · · Score: 4, Insightful

      funding a really viable alternative to Windows

      A viable alternative to Windows has to run popular Windows software. The problems are a) MS owns (or can buy) the most popular Windows software and can modify it to be incompatible with an alternative OS, or b) MS can push the next release of Windows before the alternative can gather momentum. This makes creating a viable Windows alternative a very risky, expensive, and exceptionally time sensitive gamble.

      Which is why ODF scares the hell out of MS. ODF would make it much easier to develop an alternative to Office. As it stands, Office's price is pretty inelastic since there is no real competitor. We've been paying five dollar a gallon prices for Office for a long time now. ODF would make it possible for people to switch to a wallet friendly and just as effective Office alternative. And unlike Ma Bell, once the office productivity market is broken up, there won't be a way to put it back together again.

      Once people no longer have to rely on the Microsoft Office software suite, their need to run Windows diminishes greatly. If Office falls, Windows OS falls, and MS goes from Kraken to being just another fish in the pond.

      End result: you don't need to create an alternative Windows compatible OS. You just need to develop an Office alternative. Which is why MS is using every ethically challenged legal and business strategy to shut down ODF.

      Even if MS stops ODF, if they keep pushing out underwhelming and much delayed Vista-like versions of Windows, or if MS cannot keep people on the software upgrade/subscription path, then they might really be vulnerable to an actual alternative Windows compatible OS (which at the moment is XP. Go figure.) Given that an operating system isn't useful in and of itself (applications make a computer useful,) it is a double hit to see MS having a great difficulty in coming up with and implementing must-have features or improvements to Windows. They're also scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of Office improvements. It's becoming apparent that MS has has lost the agility needed to create and implement innovations in a cost and time-effective manner.

      So until MS figures out how to compete by producing a quality product, it's going find itself in the same position that IBM did in the early 90s (where IBM almost went bankrupt.) It will be interesting to see if MS can pull an IBM and re-invent itself from a clumsy dinosaur into a fleet footed mammal.

  5. Dishonesty of voting for OOXM by Adaptux · · Score: 5, Insightful
    In my opinion, any national body which at the current state votes for OOXML to become an ISO standard is definitely dishonest.

    Either they are dishonest because they don't understand what they're doing while claiming to understand, or they're dishonest because they're knowingly voting against their country's best interest.

    Nota bene, the representatives of Microsoft Corporation and partner companies are not necessarily dishonest in their lobbying for "APPROVE" votes, since what they ask for is genuinely in their interest. But the national bodies are supposed to represent the correspondiong national interest!

  6. Huh??? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First you say "I don't think it means a thing for honesty", then you say "it might mean there is less corporate corruption going on". That is a contradiction, dude. If you said it in fewer words, it would be called an "oxymoron".

    Then, you say "OOXML really makes no difference", and continue on to say "except for... not having... an overpriced, closed vendor...".

    Ditto. You start each sentence one way, then contradict yourself later in the same sentence. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.

  7. Re:autoSpaceLikeWord95 and useWord97LineBreakRules by Adaptux · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Proprietary crap like that does not belong in a global standard. Sure, it's crap. It's specific information about some bugs in "Word95" and "Word97", by means of which now non-Microsoft vendors can implement some kind of compatibility mode that duplicates those bugs.

    As soon as the revised spec is published by Ecma, the information will be in the public domain. It's crap all right, but it's not "proprietary crap" any longer. And it's certainly no longer an example of missing information in the OOXML spec.

    I agree that it is debatable at least whether this kind of information really belongs into a standard. But what would you suggest that should be done with this information?

  8. Re:autoSpaceLikeWord95 and useWord97LineBreakRules by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They're going about it completely the wrong way, why not just make the existing markup describing spacing and line breaking flexible enough to cater to the bugs in these old apps, and then have the conversion process handle it accordingly. No need to enshrine these old bugs in a new format at all.

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