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Quantum Computing Not an Imminent Threat To Public Encryption

Bruce Schneier's latest blog entry points out an interesting analysis of how quantum computing will affect public encryption. The author takes a look at some of the mathematics involved with using a quantum computer to run a factoring algorithm, and makes some reasonable assumptions about the technological constraints faced by the developers of the technology. He concludes that while quantum computing could be a threat to modern encryption, it is not the dire emergency some researchers suggest.

15 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Schneier knows his stuff by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Informative

    While I'm critical of Schneier's work in general security consulting, he is still a god in the cryptography world. His book Practical Cryptography is a friendly guide to encryption that doesn't assume too much knowledge of the heady math involved. Plus, the man invented Blowfish, one of the most popular and fast algorithms around.

    1. Re:Schneier knows his stuff by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uff, I meant Applied Cryptography . Practical Cryptography is a bit too basic an overview written with a co-author.

    2. Re:Schneier knows his stuff by letsief · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Bruce didn't actually write that article. He only linked to it on his blog, which isn't particularly relevant. And, although Bruce is a brilliant cryptographer, he doesn't know squat about quantum computers, nor does the person that wrote that article. One of the most glaring errors is corrected in comment posted on the article page. Besides that, his argument isn't completely sound. The biggest problem with quantum computers isn't managing to build one with a tons of quantum gates, it's getting the error rate down on the components. If you do that, you ought to be able to build as many gates as you want with enough effort and money. The author's argument seems akin to saying we couldn't possibly build a 100-billion transistor count processor today. We could, its just going to be very expensive and you're not going to mass-produce it.

      Right now a lot of people working in the field say quantum computers are about 40 years off. The scary thing though is how its likely to play out. For a few decades quantum computers will likely remain "40 years off" (in the fusion sense), but then someone is going to figure out how to get the error rates below threshold, and then quantum computers will be only 10 years away. That doesn't give us much time to stop using our favorite public key algorithms. That's too bad for nTru; (they have a public key system that is likely resistant to quantum computers), their patents will be long expired.

    3. Re:Schneier knows his stuff by rucs_hack · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your data is both encrypted and unencrypted at the same time, only reverting to one state or the other when you observe it and collapse the waveform. There is also, if I read this correctly, some chance that it will turn into a cat.

      Hope that clears it up for you...

    4. Re:Schneier knows his stuff by gomiam · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Perhaps you would like to read again what NP-complete means: being able to quickly check (read: in polynomial time) whether a solution is right or not by using a deterministic algorithm. Quantum computers are non-deterministic, and that's why they can be used to factor large integers. "Check all periods of r so a^r=1 (mod N) at the same time" certainly isn't deterministic.

      The darned things would be like oracles, just ask them any super hard question, like how to prove Fermat's Last Theorem, and they'd just spit out the answer. The things would be like talking directly to God. Is that even remotely possible? I don't think so. Factoring numbers is just not as hard as any NP complete problem.

      You might as well conclude that grass is purple, for all the sense that paragraph makes.

    5. Re:Schneier knows his stuff by F�an�ro · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think you are mistaken. It has been a while, but I remember NP like this:

      What you described is the property "NP-hard".
      For a problem to qualify as NP-complete, it is also neccessary that an algorithm that can solve this problem can also be used to solve every other NP-hard problem, with only an additional transformation of its input and output in polynomial time.

      Prime factoring is not NP-complete. There is as far as I know no transformation for the input and output of a prime-factoring algorithm, that would allow it to solve other np-hard problems as well.

      If prime factoring was np-complete, then since a quantum algorithm is known for it, it would be certain that a quantum computer could also solve all other np-hard problems.

      As far as I know, no quantum algorithm with polynomial time has been found for any NP-complete problem. So we do not know whether a quantum computer could do this

  2. not exactly a "threat" by pedantic+bore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... more like guaranteed employment for security experts everywhere!

    The day PKIs that use factoring or discrete logs become easy to crack is the day when there's going to be a lot of tremendous amount of money spent on stop-gap security measures until someone figures out something new...

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
    1. Re:not exactly a "threat" by owlstead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The day PKIs that use factoring or discrete logs become easy to crack is the day when there's going to be a lot of tremendous amount of money spent on stop-gap security measures until someone figures out something new...

      I imagine one-time pads will come back in style.

      One time pads are replacements for symmetric encryption (both sides use the same key), not asymmetric encryption. You cannot authenticate a server to multiple clients using one time pads for instance. Everybody would have the one time pad, so everybody could pose as the server. Anyway, there *are* asymmetric algorithms that should be safe against crypto analysis using quantum computing. There is no need to go distributing Blu-Ray disks filled with random valued bits (one disk per application and user) just yet.

    2. Re:not exactly a "threat" by letsief · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's certainly no reason to go back to one-time pads. Basically all of the symmetric encryption algorithms are (mostly) quantum resistant. But, you do get a square root speed-up for attacking symmetric systems by using Grover's algorithm on a quantum computer. So, if you want to make sure you're still safe, you have to double your key length. That's not so bad, and certainly much better than using one-time pads. And, as you said, there are asymmetric algorithms that should be resistant to quantum computers. McEliece is an early public key encryption algorithm (with sort of ridiculous key lengths) which is probably safe, although you can't do signatures with it in a reasonable way. Then, there's nTru's work, which is probably what we'd use if someone figured out how to build a quantum computer tomorrow. They have encryption and signing algorithms that are reasonably fast.

  3. "polynomial time" by l2718 · · Score: 3, Informative

    This calculation illustrates a good point about the difference between asymptotic analysis of algorithms and real-world implementation of the same algorithsm. Computer science defines "efficient" as "bounded polynomially in terms of the input size". In practice, even if polynomial has a small degree (like a cubic) it already means that the resource rquirements are very large. Theory and practice are only the same in theory.

  4. Re:Well, lucky for us by russotto · · Score: 5, Informative

    As far as I know, it is not known whether quantum computers can solve NP-hard problems in polynomial time. To say that they fail at NP-problems may be premature.
    Seeing as it hasn't even been proven that P != NP for ordinary computers, it's very premature.
  5. Shor's Algorithm by debrain · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Presumably the article is alluding to Shor's Alorithm, which is a a method to factorize integers which uses quantum computation to yield a worst-case complexity significantly better than any existing deterministic methods.

    If that's the case, it's probably worthwhile to discuss Pollard's Rho algorithm, which has a poorly understood worst-case complexity (as a Monte Carlo method), but has a potential average case complexity that is comparable to the quantum.

  6. There is a problem with this by damburger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    He makes an extremely cogent argument, but it is hampered by the lack of information we have about the state of the art in quantum computers.

    Domestic spying is massively popular with western governments right now, and if you think that the NSA and GCHQ aren't doing secret research into quantum computers you are out of your mind. Furthermore, it is a commandment of signals intelligence that you do not let the enemy know you have broken his code - and in this case the enemy is us. We have no idea how far along they are. We have no idea what the generational length is for the quantum computers that are certainly being developed in secret.

    Basically, this essay could be published and make just as much sense either before or after a critical breakthrough had been made by one of the aforementioned agencies and they hadn't told anyone. Thus, we have no way of knowing if we are already past that point or not.

    Given that it has already been shown that quantum computers are not infallible, would it not make sense now to start working on encryption methods designed to flummox them?

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  7. Re:Does exist any quantum computer proven to work? by slew · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm afraid you'll have to look those physics books back up.

    Although QM computers do use basic entanglement for creating superpositions, understanding Shor's algorithm (the one everyone is concerned about since it's factoring in polynomial time) is mostly just understanding QM superposition. Entanglement gives generic QM computers great parallel processing power by superposition by explaining how QM probability wave combine under superposition, but Heisenberg limits the computing power of a QM computer in a non-trivial way as well because after you collapse the wave functions by measurement you give up the parallel processing enabled by Entanglement (e.g., if you peek inside the oven, it stops working, if some of the heat leaks out of the oven even with the door closed, it doesn't work as efficiently, the oven being the QM computer).

    FWIW, Shor's algorithm essentially converts factoring into a sequence period finding exercise. You might imagine that that's something easy to do if you had a machine which given a bunch of superimposed waves with a certain modulo structure could tell you the period (hint the ones that don't modulo with a specific period with self interfere and measure as zero, where the one with that period with self-reinforce). With a QM computer you do this all in parallel with superimposed probability waves and when you measure it, the highest probability one you measure is the one that doesn't self-interfere (the ones that self-interfere has probability near zero). Basically this measurement is wave function collapse which doesn't actually depend on entanglement or heisenberg to understand (although it does require you to believe in QM wave functions and measurement operators).

    Entanglement is really a strange artifact of QM that explains probability correlations that you see in QM experiments that can't be explained classically. It's really more of an artifact of the existance of probability amplitude waves (the QM wave function) rather than an effect that directly enables the QM computer. Of course if you didn't have QM wave functions you wouldn't have a QM computer so I guess that's a chicken and egg scenario. Entanglement is like the "carburator" function of the QM computer. The QM computer uses superposition of QM wave functions to work and when you have more than one QM wave function, they get entangled when you start superimposing wave functions and the way the waves entangle helps you compute in parallel so it's important to understand how these waves entangle.

    Heisenberg's principle is a consequence of wave function collapse (measurement) which also limits the QM computer (this limiting effect is often called QM de-coherence). Heisenberg isn't required by a QM computer when it's computing, but you need to see the result somehow so when you measure the result, one of the side effects is the Heisenberg principle (although that's also a chicken-egg problem, since HP is a consequence of QM wave function collapse and w/o QM there's no superposition computing). The closest explanation I can think of is that Heisenberg's principle is the "heat" caused by friction of the QM computer. You need friction to stop the computer to read out the result, but at the same time you can't get rid of a little friction while it's running either (causing de-coherence). The side effect of this friction is heat.

    You may have a personal opinion that superposition is a "nice way of doing statistics using discrete values for covering the not so discrete results of experiments", but there is experimental evidence that your personal opinions is at odds with physical reality. As QM computers that do QM computing (including IBM's NMR experiment which implemented shor's algorithm) have already been implemented it's hard to refute that something non-classical is going on.

    It may be that in the end, QM is total malarky and there's some other weird unexpected thing going on, but there are mountains of evidence that whatever is going on, it isn't as simple as "hidden variables"

  8. Re:Does exist any quantum computer proven to work? by Phroon · · Score: 3, Informative

    1. Entanglement. Is this a fact or a theory? Looking on web I found only few experiments with some possible loopholes. I found the principle hard to grok.

    2. Heisenberg principle. It mainly states that observing an object you are changing the state of the object. The Heisenberg example from wikipedia is using a photon for measuring the position of an electron and the photon is changing the position of electron. What is happening if you are using a smaller particle that is not impacting the electron so much? Are you going to change the constant? Looks mostly like a limitation from a time when the atom was considered to be indivisible.
    The Wikipedia entries are written from the perspective of a physicist, so they aren't going to be much use to laypeople.

    1. Entanglement: It is fact. If you send a photon through a certain type of non-linear crystal, two photons will emerge that are entangled quantum mechanically. To truly understand this requires some knowledge of quantum mechanics, a basic introduction to QM and entanglement can be found here and here if you care to learn more.

    2. Heisenberg principle: You inadvertently stumbled onto the problem yourself, kinda. When trying to measure the position of the electron, you use a high energy photon and this photon. When this high energy photon interacts with the electron it alters the velocity of the electron, so you know less about the velocity of the electron. When trying to measure the velocity of the electron, you use a low energy photon. This low energy photon measures the velocity well, but it moves the electron a little bit, so you don't know its position. This issue is the essence of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.