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A Screenshot Review of KDE 4
billybob2 writes "PolishLinux.org has an extensive screenshot review and commentary on the development version of the Free and Open Source KDE desktop. Highlights include the ability to run any desktop applet prepared for Mac OS X inside Plasma, on-the-fly annotation and rating of files from within the Dolphin file manager. It also has an improved GUI for the Amarok music player, flexible 3D eye candy configuration in KWin, and improved support for both accessing digital cameras via the Solid hardware layer and the DigiKam photo manager."
That is the oddest screenshot I have ever seen. Is the applet that it is running designed to fail to establish a database connection?
But here's the coral cache link to save their server...
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I've recently been able to do some widget development for OS X (nothing complex, just some HTML, JS, and AJAX calls). It's a neat little environment but the error reporting left a lot to be desired.
That said, I really appreciate the ability to open Dashboard widgets in KDE. The interface isn't that magical, and except for the ability to call native code shouldn't pose much of a problem for the developers. I was wondering if they were going to do something like this and I'm glad they have.
The little widget I developed could be used by users of one of our applications. I think a fair number of them would like it. For various reasons, 30% of the users of this application are using Macs, so that doesn't pose a problem. But when I pitched the idea (with a mostly complete widget) to my superiors they weren't that interested. I was basically told "that's quite neat, but it needs to work on Windows."
Ignoring my minor "let Mac users have something first" attitude, there is a very serious problem with providing the Widget on Windows. I can't (reasonably). I researched the options and here is what I found.
That list ignores whatever GNOME uses, and the 5-10 smaller engines that very few people use. Who knows how many people use Google Desktop or Yahoo! Widgets. None of the widgets developed on these systems works with any of the other system. Even if the widget is a simple as a "Hello, world" HTML file and image(s), the markup between Dashboard and Google is quite different. From the quick look I put into it, the same thing is true with Vista and Yahoo!. Google Desktop widgets can be loaded into the Dashboard, if you have Google Desktop installed on your Mac, because it performs some kind of translation.
So I can't develop a widget. The only user base I can promise is Vista. That's a big headache and only 2/3s the side of the Mac users we know of. Asking users to go install Google Desktop or Yahoo! Widgets just to be able to view our little widget is a little tough. Making the application native would take quite a bit of time. Integration for a custom Google homepage is probably the best option for us, but still not worth it due to the inability to predict the number of people who would actually use it.
So the project (which was just a side project of mine) is basically dead. Unless they decide that providing the widget to only Mac users (I find this very unlikely), the time isn't judged to be worth it (and I don't blame them). Until Vista takes over (probably by this time next year due to MS phasing out XP sales to OEMs) there are just too many widget engines. Targeting any decent sized group of users is nearly impossible. It's a quirk of our market that Macs have the market share they do.
This kind of consolidation is a very nice thing. As a KDE user, instantly getting so many widgets available (since outside of native code and possibly running shell commands, there shouldn't be porting) is a very nice thing.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
The review is (was) about the upcoming release of KDE 4.1.
As the KDE people are often quick to point out, the release back in January was KDE 4.0--the first of many "KDE4" releases.
Insert 120 characters of wittiness here.
If you want a lightweight, minimalist windowmanager, why on earth would you use GNOME? It has, admittedly, come on in leaps and bounds in terms of speed, but there are much more lightweight and 'minimalist' alternatives available, many of which I personally think look a lot nicer too - Fluxbox is great imho, or XFCE if you still want a little more eyecandy...
to us OS X users. A free OS with these abilities really begs that Linux be given another look by the general public for a main desktop (and with the announcement of Adobe coming to the Linux arena, this just emboldens it's abilities). Unfortunately, until audio/video and graphics apps become powerhouses on the Linux platform, I'm afraid OS X will remain my main OS of choice.
Never monkey with another monkey's monkey.
It's still way too unstable for me day to day, but it's tempting enough to keep trying anyway. 4.0.66 lasted a week before I fired it this morning. My main problems are with multi-head related (it really doesn't work very well from my and others experience, especially non-Xinerama multihead), but it keeps improving. Good work KDE Team
I like music
I see KDE as a very good, highly configurable and modern desktop environment but still wonder why it is not yet the desktop environment of choice for the "major" distros. Why? Is is because it is mainly European based and all the so called major distros are American based? I hope not.
Maybe it's just me... but is anyone else really tired of the Fisher-Price trending in desktop operating systems.
It started with Windows XP, but it wasn't *too* bad... but then Gnome showed up with full blown Fisher-Pricey-ness. KDE has always been halfway there, and with KDE 4, it looks like they have completed their journey. OS/X showed up to the party with the Teddy Ruxpin of desktop graphics. A little more sophisticated, but still clearly for kids.
So, we have all the major operating systems/window managers fully in the Fisher-Price camp. Clearly this is what the consumer wants (or is it?) - but what I don't understand is why. Am I the only person who wants my OS Desktop to look "cool" and not "cute" right out of the box? I realize "cool" (and "cute") is subjective, but I think some themes that cater to both camps out of the box would be a welcome addition.
Now, I know Gnome does not have anything of which I speak, and KDE 3 does not. I don't know about OS/X, but I've never seen a "stock" theme for OS/X that looks like something a working person would use, just the Fisher-Price-esque desktop.
I realize there are third party applications and themes to correct this... but I have yet to find something I like; They always look like something a teenager designed or something a kid would use. I have absolutely no doubt something "cool" and "utilitarian" is out there, but I have yet to find it.
The whole point of my post, though, is why the Fisher-Price trend in Desktops? What is so appealing about making the desktop look like a toy?
Slackware proper only ships with KDE (and fluxbox, and XFCE, IIRC - they're in the 'extras' discs). You can get Gnome on Slackware via other projects, but Slackware doesn't support Gnome. So, that's one distro that is straight out of the box KDE. In fact, that's why KDE is my favorite desktop environment; Slackware was my first distro, and I just got used to it.
Although, I do appreciate Gnome for what it is, but it just doesn't feel as familiar as KDE. So, yeah, the main distros these days are debian derived and that's why Gnome is dominant, IMHO. Whatever a user is subjected to first, they'll find to be more comfortable with.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
As a long-time KDE fan, I have been waiting for what seems like forever for KDE 4. I've been using 3.5 every day, along with OS X Tiger/Leopard, for the last couple of years. I love the apps, I love the environment and, in general, KDE's sense of style. The beauty that is Oxygen has had me stoked since the first screenshots came out.
I've been trying to use it as my regular window manager since a repo became available to Kubuntu users. I have been fully prepared to sacrifice some functionality and applications to use the latest and greatest, but yet still can't use it on an everyday basis, by a long shot.
Besides just general bugginess, there are some issues with the user interface that need fixing ASAP. First and foremost is speed. KDE has always been snappy for me, even on PowerPC G3/G4 hardware. On my Dell Inspiron with a 1.83 GHz Core Duo, things take forever to launch. It feels like OS X Public Beta all over again to me, in terms of application launch speed. (KDE 3.5 is super snappy on this same box.)
Next on my hit list are the widgets. We need to be able to hide the widget launcher in the right hand corner of the desktop. I've always been able to keep a super-minimalist desktop with KDE, and this menu is nothing short of distracting. And why is the panel now a widget that can only accept other widgets (of which there are a very small amount)? Where are the great little applets and buttons from KDEs past? Why can't I add an application launcher icon to the panel, like in any other desktop environment out there? For that matter, can I even create a custom application launcher anywhere? Why can't the panel be made to be a custom size?
KDE 4 has the potential to be truly revolutionary, but at this point, it's all good looks and severely lacking in functionality. Here's hoping 4.1 will actually be where 4.0 should have been.
:q!
Minimalist? What do you mean by that?
The KDE 4 design is considerably cleaner than KDE 3. It uses less memory, and runs faster, and when KDE 4.1 hits with QT 4.4, it should improve significantly again. There is a known issue with QT 4.3 that forces some hackery in screen rendering that is resolved in QT 4.4
I'm not sure how Gnome is more minimalist, unless you mean fewer options and features. Then again, I'm not sure why people don't like having choice.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Since when did Mac OS and Windows have stuff like Sonnet, Strigi/Nepomuk, Solid, Plasma, Decibel, etc?
Oh wait, they didn't.
It really irks me when people look at a window decoration, and assume that fully encompasses the work of KDE 4.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Just yesterday I tested my laptop (Pentium 3, 512mb ram) vs a Turion laptop with a gig of ram.
Mine started KDE 4 far faster than KDE 3 on the superior computer.
Because more choice is not always better. Gnome does what I need it to do, and is as customizable as I need it to be. Given that, my pre-existing comfort with gnome, and my never having used KDE for any extended period of time, I have no desire or need to switch. And this is independent of whatever advantages KDE might have, when it comes to what you need it for.
Trust me, kids; don't drink and post.
That's okay, here's a copy of the article text:
Slow Down, Cowboy! It's been 60 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment.
On the other hand, I consider myself a former Gnome user.
The last version of Gnome I was happy with was 1.4, though I have continued to use it through 2.18 or even 2.20. Every single revision took some options away — some options I had been using, too. I'd never much liked KDE (admittedly, mainly because I found Gnome to be prettier, i.e. more themeable), but as far as Linux is concerned, I'm switching to KDE. The tipping point for me was when Gnome ruined the dictionary applet, BTW.
KDE 4 seems to have many of the things I like about OS X, which has recently become my primary OS. Not to mention that in the near future I should be able to put KDE on my Windows install, thus making my life with Windows easier. I just wonder whether there is a decent OS X-like dock for KDE now; taskbars annoy me.
My father and several other Linux newbies (and computer newbies, for that matter) just love the new KDE menu, so I switched all their computers to KDE-based distros (still 3.5, though).
And it looks good now.
The only environment whose looks I like better is E17, but I have no time to play with alpha software. It's a pity those guys don't do something more with their project, as it would be just perfect for older systems (their graphic library is amazingly fast IME).
Ignore this signature. By order.
I know it's not a "true2 part of KDE and I hate to make another rant about this, but I've been unable to see anything but a horrific downturn in amarok, both in terms of usability and basic visual appeal and the developers are convinced their "content-centric" way of doing things is The Right Way. In my experience this translates to:
/.'ers spend staring at their music application (not counting pretty visuals like projectm)?
Making it look like superficiallyiTunes whilst continuting to ignore the ability to have the user decide where to put things like the playback controls and position slider
Seemingly ephemeral "content window" taking up greater than a third of the main app real estate so I can repeatedly read the wikipedia articles on my bands, or something. Why would I want to do this all the time? Oh right, because it's plasma
Aforementioned content window gets in the way of dragging things from the tree browser on the left to the playlist on the right
Playlist has been severely gimped compared to amarok 1.4 IMHO. Devs have been telling users like me that keep several thousand items in their playlist are stupid (the only valid reason I ever saw was because it increases startup time - something I'm not particularly worried about with my current amarok uptime being about fifteen days) whilst failing to provide me with a convenient way to listen to my music in the way I liked (generally on random/semi-random unless I want to listen to a particular album or artist, in which case I use the boolean filter)
Maybe I'm horrifically sad and very much music 1.0 or some such crap, but I use amarok because it makes managing and quickly picking out music from a massive collection really, really easy. Amarok 2 just seems to me to be a catalogue of style over usability and change for changes sake. Pretty much every criticism I've seen of the new UI on the blog from the very first mockups has been shouted down with either "these aren't even alpha yet, shut up, the final design will look nothing like this!", "you're wrong, this way is prettier", "we think it's more usable even if you don't, no we won't provide that as an option, it goes against our philosophy" or "can't change it now, we're too close to release". Seriously, how much time to
Since the site seems slashdotted, here's the latest dev image posted to the amarok blog: http://amarok.kde.org/blog/uploads/Newtheme.png
On a more KDE-centric level, I'm not enjoying the low-contrast Qt themes with the insistence of rounding every possible corner, and I've yet to come across any themes that give be the beautific simplicity of Plastik
The new XP-style kicker replacement is an absolute abomination to use. Too many clicks, practically impossible to browse the program hierarchies quickly. Everyone says "use the search!" - sorry, I shouldn't have to use the search function because you neglected basic functionality
Still doesn't like working across multiple monitors
Panel and window configuration options are still severely lacking
Seeming enforcement of "the desktop is the application!" metaphor with the proliferation of widgets replacing apps. The desktop, in my way of working at least, is visible for about three seconds after login until an app or five autostarts and covers it. Thanks to KDE's fantastic setup of multiple individually configurable panels and/or kb shortcuts I was able to do away with all of that tiresome minimising of windows. If you're going to make us use widgets, at least give us the option to make them use the window manager so they get an entry in the taskbar, please. The lets-have-windows-without-taskbar-entries philosophy is annoying enough on windows, as anyone who's spent time trying to find that security dialog box that took a minute or two to appear will testify
Speaking of the taskbar, the icons are still huge and it still doesn't play very nicely with having lots of windows open
Last time I checked, those somewhat confus
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
Because more choice is not always better. Gnome does what I need it to do, and is as customizable as I need it to be. Given that, my pre-existing comfort with gnome, and my never having used KDE for any extended period of time, I have no desire or need to switch. And this is independent of whatever advantages KDE might have, when it comes to what you need it for.
I'm sorry, but I don't see your point. Are you saying that, as Gnome does what you need it to do, choice ain't better? But then you say "it comes to what you need it for"?
How is it having choice worse than no choice at all? That defies common sense, buddy.
Your head a splode
As a Windows gimp, I have been trying to install and use Linux for ten years. I always used KDE and it was always the same two things that killed it as an experience for me:
1. RPM (What is up with that, way to go to differentiate your product for Enterprise, make all software pretty much uninstallable and unmanageable)
2. KDE, I installed it each time, and each time, the desktop was great for a day, then slipped irreversibly into a quagmire of wierd bugs, or horrible configurations I couldn't rescue.
OK, I'm noob. But that's my point. Ever since I first installed Ubuntu a year ago, I have been thrilled by the stability of the Gnome Desktop, and the reliability of apt-get. There is no comparison.
I'm really stoked about what has happened with KDE4, but I'm also depressed, it's just more of the same, it's a UI that is virtually promising that it will be horribly unstable, on account of it's bleeding edge. I wish KDE would just get out of the marketplace altogether, and stop scaring people away from Linux, which is, from my experience, exactly what they have been doing for years now.
You may not agree with what I say, but you should fight to the death to allow me to say it, by modding me up.
I hate THAT!
Sorry, just had to vent. In my office the trash can is out of site but easily accessible. So should it be on my computer desktop.
On XP I just removed it totally from the desktop and get at it through explorer. I saw a mod that allowed it to live in the system tray which I think is a better solution. I understand that on my Mac that its a native part of how the UI operates but at least I can keep the whole bar down there off my screen or scale it so its not annoying.
Still... in real life we don't sit them on our desks.... maybe they should use the ashtray instead - because thats the only "trash" thing ever to sit on a desk
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Absolutely right. I came here to see if anyone was going to mention it. I have a long description of what's wrong with the new KDE 4 application launcher on my web site. I've told the maintainers, I've tried to bring it up on the KDE 4 HCI discussion mailing list. So far, I've heard absolutely no response.
I gather that the window is now resizeable, but the other basic design defects remain.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
This just drives me nuts.
I really find it hard to believe the stuff that is supposed to come out of usability studies. I have seen some usability stuff at the sharp end and it looks sensible but what actually ends being released is beyond logic to me. I dont believe many of these people are capable of understanding the effect their goal is on the subjects reactions.
I fail to believe that "search" is better for newbies who dont know what they are searching for. Its almost as dumb as thinking context sensitive menus are a good idea. The most important learning tool in any system, even a text book is the chance of accidently seeing things you werent looking for. Be it, the man page for "grep" you first found while you were flicking through looking for the man page for "ls" or the option on a menu for "Save profile web browsing" while looking for the option to "exit", this is useful stuff to become aware of. People dont look for things they dont know about for christ sake!
Dont get me started on who thought it was a good idea to move the "clear the url line" button from the left the right in konqueror. I dont know about most people but I start writing in that box on the left and not only that, thats where the cursor ends up after youve pressed it.
Oh and big grey boxes with tools on when you hover over a plasmoid. Pretty but dumb. I see that now, at least, the little tool icons dont swap sides depending on which part of the screen your on. Thank god for one small mercy from the "how people work gurus". I had to laugh when my excitement at getting rid of the things (by "locking" the desktop) made it impossible to change your background image. Logical to some extent until you realise that, given the "set image as background image" disappears from the desktop menu, there are no clues whatsoever to tell you in six months time that the steps to change your background are 1) unlock desktop, 2) Go to menu that two seconds ago didnt mention anything about this task and 3) select the option to change the background.
It is utter, utter nonsense and we are being taken in by the human interface sales pitch.
I really, realy get some of the technology improvements in KDE4. I think they are a marvel and have the potential to be world beating. It is streets ahead of anything else. Sadly, it will become just a demo application for technology if this philosophy continues.
My 65 year old mother hates it and she is one of the target users.
God it makes me baity!
I've been struggling to remain sufficiently Zen amongst all this as well. I don't recommend you read some of the comments on that page if you value your blood pressure, there seems to be a colossal mentality of "Novell spent loads of money on it, and it's scientific, therefore is MUST be true!".
The search function seems retarded to me as well, for the precisely the reasons you state - we already have a method for launching applications where you're able to type in the start of the name of a program, press a button to initiate a search and then press return to launch the application, it's called a bash shell with tab complete in my book. Woo fucking hoo for your innovative search function. As you say, pretty much the whole point of a GUI, and the reason they're easier to pick up by n00bs, is that they expose you to more than you're currently using. Kickoff is the complete antihesis of this, yet it still manages to be complex enough to be confusing.
The most disturbing thing is the attitudes of some of the key developers who seem to think that a) the current users (especially the power users) don't have valid opinions and b) that it's better to cater to the lowest common denominator. Sorry, that's why I dumped GNOME. I don't want to dump KDE, but if you make everything as ball-gratingly annoying to use as kickoff and amarok I'm not going to have a choice.
Here's to hoping that the "It's finished, honest!" 4.1 will either a) put off a load of users and spur the devs into using some common sense instead of putting faith in design by committee or b) actually be halfway usable. Until then, I'm going to continue hugging my beloved KDE 3.5 - hands down the best UI I have ever used, imagined, experienced, witnessed, praised or wiggled.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat