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ISO Releases OOXML FAQ

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "The ISO has put out a FAQ concerning OOXML, but it may raise more questions than it answers. For one, it promises to address problems if they arise in the future. PJ of Groklaw said that's akin to 'selling you a car with four different sizes of tires and assuring that that if you see it's a problem, you can always bring it in for maintenance.' It also handwaves the OSP discriminatory patent promise issues, when asked about contradictions states that some 'may still remain', and asserts that duplicate standards are 'something that need[s] to be decided by the market place.' Notably, the FAQ does not answer the question, 'what the hell were you thinking?'"

17 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. Q: what the hell were you thinking? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 5, Funny

    A: Sorry, but we can't hear you over the sound of us thumbing through all these big stacks of cash.

    --

    The enemies of Democracy are
  2. Isn't the whole idea of a standard by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...to have a STANDARD?

    Maybe they should rename themselves the "International Organization for Vague and Undefined Standardization, To Be Decided By The Market"

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Isn't the whole idea of a standard by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 5, Funny

      How about M$ISO for short?

      I$O Standard?
      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:Isn't the whole idea of a standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      If renaming is an option, I'm partial to:

      ISOldout

    3. Re:Isn't the whole idea of a standard by erroneus · · Score: 5, Funny

      IOVUSTBSBTM? Doesn't work for me... How about:

      International Standards Under Corporate Kontrol?

      (If you use KDE, you probably didn't notice the inappropriate use of K, but if you use GNOME, it's probably tearing at your brain that I did that just so I could spell a word)

    4. Re:Isn't the whole idea of a standard by erroneus · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...or how about:

      "[I]nternational [S]tandards [W]ith [A]llegiance to [L]imited [L]iability [O]rganizations [W]hatever"

    5. Re:Isn't the whole idea of a standard by jsebrech · · Score: 5, Informative

      How was Microsoft supposed to implement this standard in their own products before it was a standard? Once it went into the standards committee a bunch of changes were made - how could those changes have been anticipated.

      The intial version they submitted already wasn't compatible with what office implements.

    6. Re:Isn't the whole idea of a standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      (If you use KDE, you probably didn't notice the inappropriate use of K, but if you use GNOME, it's probably tearing at your brain that I did that just so I could spell a word) I hardly gnoticed it.

  3. This one's good. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Interesting
    About investigating charges of corruption of the voting process:

    We reviewed the process before it started, all the while during its course and afterwards as well. While the voting on ISO/IEC 29500 has attracted exceptional publicity, it needs to be put in context. ISO and IEC have collections of more than 17 000 and 7 000 successful standards respectively, these being revised and added to every month. This suggests that the standards development process is credible, works well and is delivering the standards needed, and widely implemented, by the market. Because continual improvement is an underlying aim of standardization, ISO and IEC will certainly be continuing to review and improve its standards development procedures.


    So they're basically saying: "Since we've done a lot of successful standards before, there can't possibly be anything wrong with how this one was carried out."
    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:This one's good. by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So they're basically saying: "Since we've done a lot of successful standards before, there can't possibly be anything wrong with how this one was carried out."

      No, no, no. They're saying: "This was approved with the same process as all our other standards. So imagine how many other ISO standards are complete BS!"

    2. Re:This one's good. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since we've done a lot of successful standards before, there can't possibly be anything wrong with how this one was carried out.

      Yeah, it is a nice misdirection they pulled. I have always considered the study of logic to be akin to studying mental self-defense (or, perhaps "brain-fu").

      I would classify their fallacy as "ignoratio elenchi," or "ignorance of refutation." Their evidence did demonstrate something, but not what they set out to demonstrate. Stating "ISO and IEC have collections of more than 17 000 and 7 000 successful standards" could be used to defend statements like "we have produced standards," "we produce standards," "we have produced LOTS of standards," etc. This statement, however, does NOT suggest that "the standards development process is credible."

      Credibility must be established by evidence other than volume. And we already have plenty of evidence suggestive of a lack of credibility.

  4. Re:What the hell were they thinking? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If the Imperial system consisted of definitions like "Measure this like King George III would have", I'm sure people would argue against that being a standard also.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  5. Re:What the hell were they thinking? by jx100 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    why only in this one case are you so willing to claim fraud


    We've seen blatant, ample evidence that this was a bought vote. We've seen MS bribe normally uninterested countries into voting their way. We've seen them manage to fast-track a standard when it is obviously due more scrutiny (if nothing else, due to its larger size compared to the earlier ODF standard). And we've seen *blatant* vote tampering with Norway, which voted yes despite a majority of its technical advisors voting no.

    The ISO's complicity in all this cheating is plain and obvious to anyone who cares to look. Their attitude of blaming the observers is, frankly, insulting to the morals and intelligence of anyone who is speaking the truth.

    Yes, this does bring suspicion on the validity of the other standards. However, the other standards do not have the blatant, obvious process tampering that this one did, nor (to my knowledge) the enormous, unscrupulous corporation with an interest in seeing the standard passed.
  6. Re:FAQ. I meant FAQ. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    brennanw (5761)

    One would think you'd be used to it by now.

  7. Re:What the hell were they thinking? by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And if not, then why only in this one case are you so willing to claim fraud?

    I don't know much about the ISO process or about previous ISO standards, but it's entirely possible that this is the first time that an ISO standards process has been gamed so thoroughly.

    There is evidence that multiple new countries signed up as ISO members *specifically* to vote in OOXML. If so, that's an extremely large scale procedural attack. If this is the first time that a procedural attack on that scale has been attempted, then the whole situation only implies that the ISO wasn't prepared to withstand an attack of that magnitude (and now are trying to cover their asses in response).

    Now, if that is what occurred and the ISO goes on refusing to admit to the problem rather than trying to fix it then the ISO name will no longer be worth trusting - but the ISO still has a month or so to make a procedural catch on this issue, fix the problem, and save their reputation.

    --
    -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  8. They won't fix it by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The FAQ is all about not fixing it. They're rationalizing about how they have great process and how they have to accept the result of that process. The fix is in.

    And Microsoft? Now that they've built this grand machine for subverting ISO do you expect them to use it once and then throw it away? Not likely. Their duty to their shareholders and all that...

    You can stick a fork in the ISO. They're done.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  9. Slashdot define ISO as by ady1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    A bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes