Further Details From Soyuz Mishap

fyc brings us some information from Universe Today about what happened to Soyuz TMA-11 when it re-entered the atmosphere late last week. Reports indicate that a failure of explosive bolts to separate the Soyuz modules delayed the re-entry and oriented the capsule so the hatch was taking most of the heat, rather than the heat shields. CNN reports that the crew was in 'severe danger.' They experienced forces of up to 8.2 gravities. NASA officials have voiced their approval of how Russia handled the crisis. They expect to rely heavily on Soyuz spacecraft once the shuttles are retired in 2010.

Comments

Safe even upside down?

[SleptThroughClass]

It's interesting that it reentered safely without using the heat shield. What part of the design helped that?

Re:Safe even upside down?

[sznupi]

Perhaps not "that good", but apparently it's good enough to allow survival until service module breaks off due to heat/aerodynamic stress in case of separation failure.

And Soyuz has two hatches - on the side solely to exit the capsule after landing, and top one connecting the capsule with orbital module; I guess the latter one took the heat (as heppened 39 years ago during Soyuz 5 reentry when service module also failed to separate - aerodynamically stable position for Soyuz in such configuration is "top hatch first")

Re:We won't always be so lucky

[Uncle Focker]

Never underestimate the power of xenophobia on any public mob.

Re:Russian hardware

[Uncle Focker]

If you want to talk about durability and toughness you just need one word: AK-47.

Built tough.

[TripMaster Monkey]

I'm continually amazed by how robust and dependable the Soyuz modules are.

They're the Volvos of the space program.

Can we vote this guy in

[Shadow-isoHunt]

Now please?

"We seem to have gotten away from our concentration on science," said U.S. Rep. Nick Lampson, D- Texas.

old-fashioned engineering

[tetromino]

It's not so much a difference between Russians and Americans as between old-fashioned and modern engineering practices.

Back in the old days: "We don't fully understand the physics of this thing, so let's make this part 5 times stronger than it has any reason to be, just in case shit goes seriously wrong."
*kaboom*
"Heh, good thing we had that margin of error!"

Modern engineering: "We can shave 0.37% off the cost of the final product by replacing this part with cheaper, lighter materials. The computer model tells us this is perfectly safe to do."
*KABOOM*
"Oops, I guess our computer model didn't account for turbulence."

Re:old-fashioned engineering

[Skuld-Chan]

Sadly a lot of engineering decisions are made by marketing people and not engineers. Read Ralph Nader's book - unsafe at any speed. The engineers actually designed the car properly, but it was management who changed the design to cut costs at the safety of the car itself.

Re:Russian hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

I second.
They don't even do FOD sweeps at Russian airfields. Instead, they just designed the aircraft to operate from runways that might have some debris on them.

Re:We won't always be so lucky

[inviolet]

Never underestimate the power of xenophobia on any public mob.

I know you're being flippant, but xenophobia can be very rational.

Some cultures area more productive than others, and they all compete with each other for resources -- consisting mostly of land, energy, and minds. Sometimes that competition devolves to open war, other times to guerilla war, but nowadays mostly to ideological subversion. The current "all cultures are equivalent" drumbeat is an example of this kind of attack.

When one culture has developed an efficient pattern -- one capable of producing vast amounts of safety and comfort and making it available in some proportion to all of its members -- then it is rational for that culture to adjust its pattern to breed resistance to changes that other cultures try to introduce into it. Xenophobia is probably the cheapest way to mobilize that kind of resistance en masse.

Re:Recent NASA announcement on ISS resupply

[zippthorne]

Well that's stupid. Everyone knows the space station is like one of those buddhist sand painting thingies. It's about the building, not the having.

Re:You are being held by a force of two gravities!

[rbanffy]

Please remember that brave and slightly insane man survived 45G for a tiny fraction of a second. Any longer they would have problems separating him from the rest of the rocket sled.

8G during reentry is bad enough for me, thanks. It must feel like quite a beating.

Re:We won't always be so lucky

[Planesdragon]

but xenophobia can be very rational Nope. Xenophobia is by definition irrational. It can however, be productive, and a rational mind can reasonably foster Xenophobia for survival's sake. But Xenophobia is not, itself, rational.

Re:We won't always be so lucky

[Dun Malg]

It is looking like the Russians are using NASA logic which is as follows: #1 Something bad happened #2 The backup system worked #3 So the design is safe no need to fix what caused #1. No, they're just using classic Russian ne Soviet engineering theory:

"We cannot guarantee quality or precision, so instead we employ redundancy"

Soviet/Russian design theory is "Make it thicker, make it simpler, make three of it". It's classic belt, suspenders, AND holding on to your waistband with your hands thinking.