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Smartphone Battle Is Shaping Up As RIM Vs. Apple

TeknoFin notes a piece in the NYTimes on the fight RIM finds itself in as the smartphone market shifts to a consumer focus, impelled by the iPhone. For the last 10 years RIM has dominated a smartphone market consisting mainly of email-obsessed corporate professionals. Analysts wonder if RIM can hold on to their lead as their strengths — such as cozy relations with cell carriers worldwide — are diluted by new entrants Apple and Google, who are "vocally trying to dislodge the carriers from the nexus of the North American wireless market." One of RIM's strengths in the corporate market has been their security. Yet Apple executives have said that one-third of Fortune 500 companies were interested in giving iPhones — with all their known and potential security holes — to their employees.

27 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. The world is not the U.S. by mvdwege · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And again U.S.-centric media act as if the U.S. market is representative for the whole world.

    Here's a hint: RIM is only a player in push-mail smartphones. Worldwide, the major smartphone platform is Symbian. Apple may as well not exist in the world-wide market. I have seen a colleagues iPhone, and it is a nice little machine, but it is currently geared more for multimedia use than as a business smartphone. It will take Apple at least one more generation to actually become a threat to Symbians dominance of the marketplace.

    Of course, compared to the other bit players in the marketplace, if one company can pull off a landslide shift in marketshare, it will be Apple. It helps that they understand Marketing extremely well.

    Mart
    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    1. Re:The world is not the U.S. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Security, ability to install bespoke applications, secure VPN, secure wireless, exchange integration, ability to dial out on multiple numbers...

      Apple is trying to address some of these with firmware 2.0 but there's one key that businesses look for - the ability to negotiate very competative deals with the providers because they can play them off one another and get much lower than the published prices (one place I was at the mere threat of going elsewhere usually got them insanely good deals - that was a big contract). Apple has yet to address this, as there is currently nowhere else to go, and iphone is a monoculture.. if you port your apps to it you're stuck with it.

    2. Re:The world is not the U.S. by ltrm · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Don't be so provincial.

      The article specifically mentions Steve Jobs' worldwide ambitions in the opening paragraph.

      So whether Slashdot is a US site or not is of no consequence here, the point still stands. Symbian is the dominant platform by considerable margin but still doesn't get a mention. Lazy journalism.

    3. Re:The world is not the U.S. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, it's just that the cellphone market has been catering to 17-year-old girls.

      I'm a 19-year-old male, and all I want my phone to do is make calls and, just as importantly, receive calls. I have a laptop that does email, music (so does my iPod), video (so does my iPod), gaming, and document editing.

      Fuck expensive convergence devices. The iPhone is only really interesting because of its user interface.

    4. Re:The world is not the U.S. by LKM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Basically, I can't type on the iPhone in portrait mode. In landscape, I can usually peck my way using index fingers, either one handed holding the phone in the other hand, or two handed if a lay the phone on a surface. Typing with thumbs (the preferred method of all bberry users) is simply not possible. I find that hard to believe. Do you attempt to spell correctly at first attempt, or do you use the iPhone's auto-correction? I have large hands, too, and while the iPhone often gets single letters wrong, it typically manages to figure out the word I was trying to write anyways. Perhaps you should try to stop worry about single wrong letters?
    5. Re:The world is not the U.S. by funkdancer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's a hint: RIM is only a player in push-mail smartphones. Thanks for clearing that up! As an Australian/Norwegian person, my first thoughts were... "what the hell is (a) RIM?".

      My second thought was, "what the hell is an iPhone?". Actually, that was mainly in jest, but you can't buy those non-3G things legitimately here --- and they're non-3G --- so why bother.

      (Yours Truly is patiently waiting for the N96 to be released so that I have a proper Symbian smartphone with an awesome camera, lots of storage and a 3G connection for my N810 tablet to bluetooth into.)
      --
      ISO certified == THX certified
    6. Re:The world is not the U.S. by mvdwege · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You just proved the point: the only thing the iPhone has over the competition is slick looks, in actual useful features it is below par. And you buy it as if it is a huge advantage. Given the context (business use), this is a prime example of someone drinking the Marketing Kool-Aid.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  2. iphones by perlchild · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The iphone, warts and all, appears to be an actual platform. It's actually usable. Every blackberry owner I've seen so far sees it as a mail client, there are very few third party apps and they're not widely known.

    The iphone will have third party apps(thanks to the controversy that it didn't) and people will know about them. I'd say that's a good reason to worry at RIM.

    I'll miss my palm when my company gets to me, but I hope they replace the blackberries they have with iphones, not force the blackberries onto us.

    1. Re:iphones by NMerriam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The iphone, warts and all, appears to be an actual platform. It's actually usable. Every blackberry owner I've seen so far sees it as a mail client, there are very few third party apps and they're not widely known.

      I think that's the key to the "battle". While RIM and Symbian are powerhouses from a corporate standpoint, they've never had the crossover attraction that Palm had and WinCE has to a lesser degree -- lots of useful third-party apps that make you want to carry it with you in your personal life, not just when your job tells you to.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    2. Re:iphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Are you on crack man? My N95 has all sorts of apps available for it (and most apps crossover to different models just fine). And I thought my Treo had allot of applications available for it. At least Symbian is far easier to code for than Treo. Thats all I gota say on that.

  3. Dont forget... by gigne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    HTC make plenty of excellent Smartphones. A lot of companies are giving their staff these Windows Mobile devices as they are cheap and have push email from an Exchange server.

    Not particularly a fan of Windows mobile, but it does the job well enough to make this a 3 horse race.

    --
    Signature v3.0, now with 42% less memory usage.
    1. Re:Dont forget... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And how about including #1 smartphone manufacturer, Nokia? I've never seen _anyone_ using any of those '3 horses', ever. I'd say all three of those are not that well known outside USA.

  4. And how did Aple arrive at this number? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet Apple executives have said that one-third of Fortune 500 companies were interested in giving iPhones â" with all their known and potential security holes â" to their employees. My guess is that someone at Apple is either pulling this out of their arse, or it's from some sort of survey of Fortune 500 executives -- most of which, even the Cx0s (where x is in [IT]) -- have very little knowledge of IT in general.

    Most of their IT people -- those with real IT knowledge -- would be telling them "No, no. Bad plan. No internal central management, no internal patch management, doesn't fit our security model, bad, bad, bad!!!"
    1. Re:And how did Aple arrive at this number? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What they probably said was they'd consider trialling it, which is only fair. Give one or two employees them for a few days and if they come back to your office begging for their blackberries back you end the trial right there.

      I'm surprised the figure is so low - it means that 2/3rds of fortune 500 companies wouldn't even consider a trial.. and that's gotta hurt.

    2. Re:And how did Aple arrive at this number? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did anyone remember how "IT people with IT knowledge" forced migrations to Windows in min 90's, promising cheaper, better supported, homogenous solution despite users' outrage of the forced migration [a famous example was NASA Goddard SFC forced migration]?. The end result was sloppy insecure networks infested with malwares, a ballooning IT staff, more expensive solution despite cheaper initial cost, longer downtime, less productive users and so on. Now, I am not saying that all IT people are bad, but many of the so-called "IT people with real IT knowledge" only understood Windows and MSCE certified and did everything they could to stay on the job relying only on their Microsoft credentials.

      I am weary of any statement expounding on "IT people with real IT knowledge" because it normally means IT people with a singular expertise, most likely Windows. There has got to be a solution where there is a balance between IT people trying to protect users from their own selves, IT job security, the productivity of the users and the profitability of the company.

  5. What's the big deal about smartphones? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm a 30 year old male, hardcore geek.. I have a "standard" mobile flip-phone with an unlimited data plan.. I can rapidly text without looking at it.. it plays music, takes pictures, bluetooth, play media files, can transfer data.. it does everything I'd ever want it to do. A few months ago, my employer got some of us Blackberries, and I still GREATLY prefer my old phone to the Blackberry. I keep fat fingering things, I can't text without devoting all of my attention to it, and the UI is just terrible. I for one, don't get the big deal. (And I used an Iphone once, and absolutely hated it. Real buttons are a requirement for me.)

  6. Different solutions for different applications by lohphat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason RIM has the business market is that they have features which mate it scalable for the enterprise, every other player hasn't matched features for that target market.

    The ability to brick lost phones, encrypt contents, apply IT security profiles, provision remotely over the air, sync to the server to make the hand-held expendable, data modem for the laptop, etc. And there are apps for the BB for many major ERP and sales tools. The key business integrations for the road warrior are already there.

    I think the iPhone et al are cool as a *personal* tool/toy but more often than not, they don't scale into a company where protection of IP and low TCO are mandated. For your personal use, you can absorb all the geekiness you want because the support required starts and ends with yourself.

    Try to deploy 1000 iPhones in a company and you're going to hemorrhage money.

    RIM isn't as sexy but it's a stable, known, scalable, and for the most part, secure solution.

  7. Re:Biasd and false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Kinda hard to discount WM with %12

    I dunno, seems pretty easy to me when it's been out for YEARS, and the ten month-old iPhone already has more than half its marketshare.

  8. Blackberry? WHO? by SirJorgelOfBorgel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Blackberry... who?

    "For the last 10 years RIM has dominated the smartphone market" ... right. Blackberry has never, and will never, dominate any smartphone market whatsoever.

    Symbian is #1 in users, and Windows Mobile is #1 in usability. Blackberry is a closed system and will ultimately completely fail. So will the iPhone, by the way, aside from a personal(!!) gadget.

    It's virtually impossible to develop anything for the Blackberry. Add to that thats it's features are insanely expensive compared to the alternatives. It's only somewhat big in the US. Sure nowadays you can get Blackberry in Europe, but seriously, who other than an easily duped executive would ever order it?

    Your average Symbian or Windows Mobile device is way more compatible with existing infrastructure, costs a fraction of a Blackberry (with the latter mostly being insane subscription costs, at least over here).

    But what is most important - customizibility. There are almost an infinite number of apps available for Symbian and Windows Mobile (and as a developer, and I hate to say it, Windows Mobile easily has my preference). Your company needs something not 100% the standard package? You just call somebody with the knowledge and get it tailored to your needs.

    Virtually anything you want to do is possible. That's the power. Some times, it can also be a drawback, but usually it's a power.

    As for the iPhone, same shit different day. It's closed (enough to be called closed). They want to exert control. You'll always be a step behind that way. Even if your interface is shiny, what can it actually do? Forgive me for laughing at everybody who ever bought an iPhone, but WTH, no 3G ? For what it's supposed to do as a device, it's somewhat comparable to buying a black and white flatscreen 42". It may mean nothing to a non-techy, but I'm sure we can all agree iPhone is not a business device.

    I remember going to a conference once, about 3 years ago, here in Europe, where there was also a seminar on Blackberry. The spokespeople were very enthousiastic about it. Feature this, feature that. Most of the audience was completely unimpressed. Our phones already do that. RIM may have fooled you Americans, but they offer very little extra. They may have some extra technical management stuff, but all of that will be in the next WM (and probably Symbian, too) release, and they only have it at the cost of using the device how you want it to be used.

    1. Re:Blackberry? WHO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Windows Mobile is #1 in usability

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

      Is tonight "mods on crack" night? Because that's the only way I can see a post containing the above sentence getting +4, Insightful.

    2. Re:Blackberry? WHO? by gtx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Blackberry has 11% of the global market even though 3/4 of its users are in North America. Windows Mobile has 12% of the global market and its users are fucking everywhere.

      As a result, Blackberry dominates the North American smartphone market.

      You may find this to be in direct conflict to your statement "Blackberry has never, and will never, dominate any smartphone market whatsoever."

      Your post is a whole bunch of nonsense. Yes, Symbian has market dominance outside of North America. However, even by your own admission, "They may have some extra technical management stuff, but all of that will be in the next WM (and probably Symbian, too) release"

      Have you ever considered that the cost of using Blackberry is worth it to some companies so that they can have these features right now on hardware that isn't a goddamned toy?

      So please spare us your elitist bullshit. I don't give a good goddamn if you're from Europe or if you have the best smartphones over there. This doesn't make any difference if you don't have any goddamned clue what you're talking about.

      --


      "I hope I don't make a mistake and manage to remain a virgin." - Britney Spears
    3. Re:Blackberry? WHO? by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You had me until you said you laughed at everyone who bought the iPhone without it having 3G.

      I bought the iPhone, and yes disappointed it didn't have 3G support, but this is a 1st gen product from Apple and I could forgive them for not having EVERYTHING they wanted to have for their 1st gen launch.

      Was it they didn't want to deliver 3G? I doubt it.
      I think it was time and moeny for development + possible licensing costs from AT&T and other carriers for the tech to use the network.

      Makes sense to see if you have another Apple Cube o your hands before making further investments.

      Everyone seems convinced that 3G will be in iPhone v2.
      And I am quite certain of that, especially with the iTunes Music Store integration.

      So laugh all you want at people like me who bought a product THEY could use today even though it didn't have everything YOU wanted. Personally, I am extremely happy with the iPhone, and plan on buying the 2nd version as soon as it comes out.

      And as far as it not being a business device, I have to disagree. I do far more business on my iPhone than any other phone and find it truly adds to my productivity without taking up all my time. Granted, there are some features I think their mail client really needs, but once again, it's a 1st gen product.

      But what it really provides me more than anything else is compactness, utility and versatility that no other device has yet to provide. Until the iPhone, I had two gadgets with me at all times: cell and iPod. Those are now just 1. And I'm positive that iPhone v2 will encroach upon the need for secondary gadgets such as digicam and low end digital video camera and GPS unit.

      So laugh all you want, but at least be fair enough to realize that everyone isn't like you, and you may very well be someone that the iPhone just isn't for. But that doesn't mean it's crap or the people buying it idiots. However your attitude makes you seem a bit biased and closed minded in thinking... which can indicate lesser ability to comprehend and accept change. But that doesn't mean you lack that ability.

  9. But only wiht AT&T by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My biggest gripe with the iPhone is that it runs only on AT&T and I am not going to plunk down my cold, hard cash to buy an iPhone, just to hack it for other networks.

    You can get BB and Treo's for nearly all providers.

  10. Re:Biasd and false by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I've thought about this argument for a long, long time and Apple locking certain software out because it directly competes with their software IS A BAD THING. If you think locking people out because you don't want to compete is good, then have fun with your IPhone.

    Um, I use Safari, and if it gets a 3rd party cert it can't verify, then it will, by default, notify you and ask if you want to accept it or not.


    I can make certs all day long on my own cert server and Safari will eat them up! Because the cert isn't issued from a ROOT CERTIFICATE PROVIDER, but rather issued by me, the cert is INVALID as far as confirming the identity of the host! Safari doesn't even have a list of root certificate providers! So in safari when it says "HTTPS" and the cert was issued by "CRACKS.AM" it will look the same as the "HTTPS" when its issued by verisign! Now if this goes over your head, maybe you should read up on it a bit, but don't tell me I'm wrong.

  11. Setting up devices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I love all these guys saying they "just got done setting xxx up for a client" and "iPhone suck 'cause it plays videos." I wonder since the iPhone is too easy for regular peeps to set up, you never get to see one, and see your job loss coming when your clients buy them.

  12. Only 45 minutes with iPhone? *That's* the problem by KH2002 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...when I first tried the iPhone for around 45 minutes I was really not impressed [with the keyboard]. 45 minutes? That's the problem. It takes 2-3 days to get used to it. Those 2-3 days make a huge difference, and if you haven't spent that time, you won't know what the iPhone keyboard is capable of...
  13. RIM's advantage will kill it in India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    From what I understand, RIM/Blackberry has end-to-end encryption. That is, from your mail server to your handheld unit. MitM is not possible with the blackberries.

    On the other hand, taking the example of my Sony Ericsson P990i smartphone - it does everything that the BB does - push email, calendar sync etc. from our Exchange server - via Microsoft ActiveSync. Now, my understanding of this is that there are two encryptions involved - from the Exchange server to some box in my cellular provider's site; and then the usual GSM encryption between the provider and my handheld. That is, the provider gets to see my emails unencrypted.

    This advantage has the potential to kill BB in India, at least. The goverment here has been tapping emails, phone calls etc. for years, and now they find that with BB, they are unable to do so. They have been trying to armtwist RIM to ensure that BBs in India use low-grade encryption (40-bit, IIRC). Google News for "blackberry India" should give you the whole background.

    Now, apparently even the government of Canada has gotten involved, with the High Commissioner himself writing letters to India's DoT (Dept. of Telecommunications). I am wondering how this will eventually play out, but I believe RIM is even considering a complete pull-out of India.