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Copyright Expert Uninvited From Canada Policy Forum

earthforce_1 writes "The vested interests of restrictive copyright are stacking the deck in Canada. The Public Policy Forum Symposium on intellectual property reform has bowed to pressure from certain interests and dis-invited noted copyright scholar Howard Knopf. The forum's stated mandate is '...to strive for excellence in government — to serve as a neutral, independent forum for open dialogue on public policy, and to encourage reform in public sector management.' For some reason, the US Ambassador to Canada and the former head of the Canadian Motion Picture Industry Association have been invited — apparently they are perceived to have a more neutral view of what Canadian copyright laws should be? More information at Howard Knopf's blog."

16 of 100 comments (clear)

  1. They have more than they deserve by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They know that they have more 'rights' in their copyrights than they deserve. They've spent a lot of money to make it that way. They know that if things were rendered "fair and balanced" that they'd lose a LOT of money -- not just the money they spent buying laws that favor them, but undeserved income these laws yield.

    I can't hold these jackasses completely responsible for their greed. We've all got some greed in us and corruption is a problem of opportunity, not of character. I blame the legislators that make themselves available to the highest bidder and the character flaws that prevent them from correcting the circumstances that enable corruption.

    1. Re:They have more than they deserve by erroneus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This isn't about the "creative artists" and it never has been. Quite the contrary, this is about the exploitation of artists. The 'copyright industry' is controlled and manipulated by a limited number of players. These are the publishers and copyright cartel that have created a system where the marketing of the works they bought completely overshadow the 'independents' such that they never have a chance without their 'help.' These are the same ass-clowns who have lobbied for laws extending copyright to like 99 years after the death of the artist. This is not for the benefit of the artist. How is any time after the death of the artist an 'incentive to create?' It's not. This is meant to serve the big dogs who make it their business to buy and promote the works of others.

    2. Re:They have more than they deserve by fishbowl · · Score: 3, Insightful


      >To be fair, the longer and stronger the copyright, the more the artist can sell it for. What's the point of buying something if you no
      >longer own it after the person you bought it from dies?

      You have to be willing to share it at some point or the deal's off. The *reason* you get copyright protection for some time is *because* you are willing to allow it to become a public common at some future time. If you are not willing to the the latter, you are not entitled to the former, because society and culture as a whole, is more important than YOU. And that is the whole point of copyright law.

      Copyright law will do a very good job of protecting you, to content creator, from somebody who wants to claim that they created your works and will sue you.

      Copyright does a very poor job as a weapon for you, the content creator, to use against others.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    3. Re:They have more than they deserve by Pofy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Whilst I agree with much of what you wrote, this part is wrong.
      >Being able to leave money for your children and grandchildren is
      >a great incentive. And at least for authors, this is the time
      >where their experience is most valuable.

      I suppose they can do like anyone else, leave money they have earned until they die. Why should then in ADDITION be able to leave a copyright to children and in what way does that fullfill the goals of copyright? I have never seen anyone claim copyright has as one of the purposes the possibility to give children a way to make money by restricting others use of a work.

    4. Re:They have more than they deserve by 10101001+10101001 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... corruption is a problem of opportunity, not of character. I blame the ... the character flaws that prevent them from correcting the circumstances that enable corruption.

      Lots of consistency there. No, it's pretty simple. Corruption is a problem of character. Few people have the character to resist corruption. That's why government and any other place where corruption can exist has to be open (so the corruption can be seen) and accountable (since knowing about the corruption and being unable to do anything about it makes knowing about it mostly pointless). The major problem with the US isn't a question of corruption not being open enough. It's that legislators are rarely held accountable. And a large part of that has to do with (a) impeachment and conviction being so rare while elected, (b) most people forgeting by the time elections roll around and will still vote for the person, (c) most people's willingness to vote in a criminal because they see it better to vote in a criminal on "their" team than to vote in anyone on the "other" team", and (d) once the person *does* eventually get unelected, there being no motivation (and logistically, it can be difficult to wait a few years) to actually put the person on trial.

      Almost all the same points for legislators apply to top executives at corporations. It's little wonder they would behave the same way, given that companies don't have to be as open. I certainly don't believe that relying on bettering the character of others will work--at least, not until most people are willing to stand harshly on following through when holding someone accountable for their poor character. So, that leaves trying to improve the openess and the able to hold accountabiliy even when a majority only cares for a short while.

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      Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
    5. Re:They have more than they deserve by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      corruption is a problem of opportunity, not of character

      Corruption most certainly IS a problem of character, and a statement like the one above sounds like it was made by someone trying to rationalize away their own lack thereof (no personal offense, but that *is* what it sounds like).

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    6. Re:They have more than they deserve by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Whilst those individuals might have been corrupt, mass media proved the be the major facilitator in getting the most corrupt politicians re-elected by burying the truth and launching slander campaigns against honest politicians. With the internet starting to dominate 21st century mind space, the mass media lies, oh, sorry marketing are getting buried.

      So now we are seeing a radical change, where the lies are being exposed, where corrupt politicians are being publicly shamed, where stacked policy forums are being exposed for what they are, corrupt marketing opportunities to sell laws to target and victimise the majority for the benefit of a greedy self serving minority.

      How many mass media adds for the most disingenuous politicians have been latter dismembered across the web, and the lies shown in the adds compared to the truth of the actions.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. If you can't beat em, don't invite em. by Fluffeh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's pretty simple if you have a good agenda to keep, make sure you don't invite people who oppose said agenda.

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    Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
  3. Re:Dont assume conspiracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...It's like you never read parent's comment at all.

    Wow, I applaud you. Everybody on Slashdot has already stopped doing the unnecessary task of RTFAing*, but you, young man, you're ahead of the times. You don't even RTFC! You, sir, will set the standards for the hive-mind in the years to come!

    (* Or is it R'ingTFA?)

  4. Fixing a stupid questionaire != trolling by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    How can you effectively answer a questionaire that boxes you into giving stupid answers? It's a bit like:

    Have you stopped beating your wife: [ ] yes I have stopped [ ] no I still beat her. So how do you answer if you've never beaten her?

    All I can see here is that he tried to answer a broken set of questions.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  5. Re:Quick reminder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off CPF among other things" -RIAA
  6. Equal Opportunity Weeps by JohnSearle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There's a great deal of difference between spending the last years of your life writing for posterity but knowing you're not going to get paid for it, and writing for posterity and knowing that your grandchildren are going to be able to going to college and never have to worry about medical bills.
    Equal opportunity weeps. Perhaps a country that has an interest in keeping resources in the hands of elite families also has an interest in this type of incentive.

    Maybe a country that is based on equality of opportunity (Canada / USA) should put less focus on crafting incentives that involve passing family fortunes down.

    - John
  7. OT by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Its the reason people believe that 100 years of industrial evolution on this planet can corrupt over 4.5 billion years of naturally occuring weather cycles."

    No, robust science is the reason I (and I dare say most people here) accept the message that has come from the IPCC and every other national science body on the planet.

    It is intellectually lazy (at best cynical) to disagree with something just because some random lobbyist uses it to push an agenda. The problem with "for hire" lobbyists is they are members of the old boys club, expert liars, and schooled in the art of manipulation, they belive what they are paid to belive. If anything lobbyists (and in many cases politicians) have tried to hide and discredit the science in exactly the same way tobbaco lobbyists did in the 80's.

    In fact if you look up one Fred Singer you will find a "fossil fuel lobbyists" and a "tobacco lobbyists" all wrapped up into one person, decorated with ancient qualifications and honarary degrees. Until the last couple of years Fred and other like-minded lobbyists had been very successfully spreading mis-information that is then repeated ad-nauseum on slashdot by geeks who often have sufficient education in physics and chemistry to know better. I also belive much of that derision on slashdot was due to the messenger, ie: people heard the IPPC's message coming out of Al Gore's mouth and instinctively started taking pot shots at what they percieved to be "Al Gore's crackpot theory".

    However in the interests of "fair and balanced", I will point out there are still a tiny minority of scientists who disagree with some parts of the IPCC consensus, here is a list of them. You will find that their arguments have been debunked many times over, a good place to start looking for such mythbusting and the shenanigans of anti-science lobbyists is here

    If you don't want to go through the pain of educating yourself on the science and politics of climate change then I have one simple question that may clear things up for you. Since CO2 is known to trap heat and we are pumping 10Gt/yr of it into the atmosphere, how is that trapped heat disipated back into space, or alternatively what absorbs the excess CO2 so that it unable to trap heat in the first place?

    BTW: Please don't take the above as a personal attack, your only human and we are all vunerable to well crafted bullshit from outside our sphere of expertise (which incidently is the reason why the scientific method is considered usefull).

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    1. Re:OT by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a good thing that we have sceptics, on climate change, copyright, or any other debate that isn't about absolute facts for that matter. If we ever reach the point where some prevailing consensus is considered the gospel truth because it suddenly became trendy/lobbyist fodder/a source of research funding, then we're in a lot of trouble. One of my favourite quotations comes from the late anthropologist Margaret Mead, who said, "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

      In this case, I have little doubt now that the effects described by the pro-climate change scientists are real. However, I also have little doubt that some of the arguments made in An Inconvenient Truth were naive at best, as evidenced by the rush to invent credible explanations after criticism in the "inconvenient documentary" that followed, nor that concerns about imminent catastrophic results have been overstated in the rush to be seen to be doing something. There's some truth in there somewhere, and it's for the best that we have at least some people advocating both sides of the debate to help us find it.

      Getting back on topic, I think much the same is true of an ethical/political/economic issue like copyright. It's easy on Slashdot, ancestral home of "information wants to be free" groupthink and student economics, to find ways to criticise copyright and claim it reaches too far. It's just as easy, if you work as a professional recording artist, to find an ethical argument that the world doesn't need your particular interpretation of a work for free and that copyright in that recording should last for your entire lifetime. Again, a balance needs to be struck, starting with deciding what copyright is really for (which has multiple sensible answers, not all of which are based on some vague wording in the constitution of one nation, and which are sometimes incompatible).

      This is why it is a shame that we are reading this story today. It's not even necessary that the person who's been removed might have argued the way many on Slashdot would like to see the debate go. It is a shame merely because the debate will now be less balanced than it otherwise would have been.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  8. Re:Dont assume conspiracy by bit01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    other side wanted more balance

    I agree, it should be more balanced.

    We live in a democracy; one person, one vote.

    Copyright affects everybody. The population of Canada is 33 million. The industry is only a tiny fraction of the total population. A representative panel should have maybe ten representatives from the general population for every one industry representative.

    Note: Industry representatives should get no special treatment simply because they're rich or because they might be excessively affected by changes in copyright law; companies are just groups of people and should have no special privileges compared to the general population.

    Yes, it's tyranny of the majority. Problem is, the only thing worse than that is tyranny of a minority.

    ---

    Some people believe with great fervor preposterous things that just happen to coincide with their self-interest.
    -- Judge Frank Easterbrook, Coleman v. CIR (7th Cir 1986) 791 F2d 68 at 69 [and quoted in several subsequent court decisions]

  9. Troll food, but... by itsdapead · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Its the reason people believe that 100 years of industrial evolution on this planet can corrupt over 4.5 billion years of naturally occuring weather cycles.

    ...and during those 100 years we have dug up and burned a significant proportion of the fossil fuel deposits that originally built up over a ~ 100 million year period ~ 300 million years in the past (ballpark figures) - when the climate was considerably different to today. That's a geological-scale intervention - you have to be pretty blinkered to deny even the possibility that it could have geological-scale consequences.

    And no, that's not intended to be an evidence-backed scientific argument - just a plausibility argument, responding in kind to the parent's (im)plausibility argument.

    PS: the state of the climate isn't caused by either CO2 or the Sun or algae in the sea or continental drift - its caused by all those factors and many more interacting in a complex and poorly understood equlibrium - changing any of those factors can shift the equilibrium, and in some types of equilibrium changing the wrong factor by just a little bit too much can destroy that equilibrium.

    The human race is now so large and has such power to change the environment that we need to stop assuming that our activities are insignificant until proven otherwise. Trees affect the climate (you think that's air your breathing? its tree fart!) and they just sit there doing nothing.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.