Slashdot Mirror


Stealth Paint From German Inventor Werner Nickel

Gerhardius writes "Werner Nickel sounds like a Disney-style wacky inventor. He moved to the UAE to develop his previous invention: he had bred a worm whose excrement made it possible to grow radishes in the dry desert sand. That project failed so he moved on to the next item on his agenda, naturally a radar absorbing paint. While it certainly is not unique, there is some interesting history behind the development, and a proposed civilian use."

28 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. Still a long way to go by KDR_11k · · Score: 5, Funny

    he had bred a worm whose excrement made it possible to grow radishes in the dry desert sand.

    But can that excrement allow humans to see the future and travel faster than light?
    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    1. Re:Still a long way to go by porkmusket · · Score: 4, Funny

      LSD in the dessert? Far out man, I'll take another brownie please

    2. Re:Still a long way to go by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Informative

      But can that excrement allow humans to see the future and travel faster than light?

      If you don't get it, the OP is a reference to Frank Herbert's novel Dune where the chemical produced by the sandwords of the desert planet Arrakis proved the key to faster-than-light travel by giving starship steersmen superhuman powers.

      While I admire Herbert's creation of a science fiction novel based on modern studies of desert ecology, I felt the whole spice deal weakened the hard sci-fi goodness of what otherwise would have been a less fantastical book.

    3. Re:Still a long way to go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      You can still travel through space without the spice, just not faster than light. Well technically you can, just not safely.

      The Spacing Guild has a monopoly on imperial banking and interstellar travel: with the use of melange, Guild Navigators are the only beings capable of piloting the massive Guild Heighliners safely through space. The heightened awareness and prescience the spice grants allows the Navigator to plot a safe course between the stars.

      Heighliner operation requires both a Guild Navigator and a Holtzman generator. The Holtzman generator uses the Holtzman effect to "fold space" and allows virtually instantaneous interstellar travel. The Navigator is responsible for finding a safe path through folded space and guiding the ship. This is accomplished under the influence of melange in the form of orange spice gas. Melange provides the Navigator with the limited form of prescience required.
    4. Re:Still a long way to go by Sparr0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can also go there with the use of really smart computers to do the navigating, but those are banned in the Dune universe due to a war with sentient machines ~10000 years before the time of the Dune books.

    5. Re:Still a long way to go by sukotto · · Score: 2, Funny

      walk without rhythm and it won't attract the radish?

      --
      Come play free flash games on Kongregate!
    6. Re:Still a long way to go by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's spelled right. Maud-Dib was the character that Bea Arthur played before she landed the role of Dorothy on the Golden Girls.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
  2. Let me guess .. by ccozan · · Score: 5, Funny

    worm whose excrement made it possible to grow radishes in the dry desert sand.. .. the radishes are quite ... spicy?
    1. Re:Let me guess .. by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess they'll have to drill for oil very quietly now.

  3. Re:Civilian use? by Brandybuck · · Score: 5, Informative

    Except that commercial airports use transponders, not radar, to locate planes.

    --
    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
  4. Re:Civilian use? by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, paint the transponder.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  5. Uses by camperslo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All that stressful military/terrorist stuff aside, that paint might just be good for silencing cell phones in movie theatres. It's generally illegal to jam any sort of licensed transmission, but creating an environment that weakens the signal is a good workaround.

    Perhaps adding a layer of the paint to some consumer products, like PCs, might be a viable way of reducing the R.F. noise (and security issues that go with it?) leaking out.

    1. Re:Uses by kesuki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      if by conventional construction techniques you mean buying rolls of aluminum foil backed wallpaper, then yes, it's quite easy to make a cellphone proof building.

      also there are simple devices that can make cellphones useless by interfering with their broadcast frequency (cellphone jammers) but i would think that aluminum foil backed wallpaper would be cheaper long term than a jammer, the advantage of a jammer is that it can be disabled from when the credits roll until the film starts...

      i think the main reason not to jam/build a cheap aluminum based Faraday cage is simple. it's cheaper not to, and people can't sue you for missing a phone call that was a life or death situation (eg: a doctor who was on call trying to catch the latest film, getting called in for a medical emergency)

      a little far fetched, but even doctors like movies. if their cellphone doesn't work at the movies, they might not go there...

    2. Re:Uses by v1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regardless of who you are, it is not my responsibility to make sure you are available in case of an emergency. If you need to be available, it is your responsibility to adjust your behavior to increase the odds that you are available, given the provided situations you find yourself in. I don't care if you're a doctor with a patient in the ICU, a parent with a sitter at home, or anyone else for that matter.

      A doctor will also be without cell phone service when taking a tour of the Great Mounds Cave. That doesn't mean we should put up cell towers in there. What it means he should not be there while on call. Same goes for a theatre or any other venue where cell reception is naturally or artificially unavailable. Although any venue where a reasonable person would expect cell service but cannot get it, should have reasonable notice. In this case a note on the ticket or at the door to the theatre.

      I'm so tired of people trying to make me responsible for their bad decisions. That's what your parents are for. While you're under 18. After that, take ownership of yourself.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:Uses by swillden · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Regardless of who you are, it is not my responsibility to make sure you are available in case of an emergency. If you need to be available, it is your responsibility to adjust your behavior to increase the odds that you are available, given the provided situations you find yourself in.

      But it is your responsibility to disable the phones of rude and obnoxious people?

      If you want to take that on yourself, why not take a more direct route -- next time someone starts gabbing on the phone go take it away from them and toss it in the parking lot.

      I always leave my cellphone on in the movie theater, so my kids can call if they need me. It's on vibrate, in an inside pocket where the light won't bother anyone, and I don't answer it. If it rings, I leave the theater (I always sit near the aisle so if I need to I can leave with minimal disturbance) and call back. It's a highly useful tool for me, and doesn't disturb anyone else.

      In any case, theaters aren't going to install crap like this. It will bother too many of their patrons. For every childless, carefree person like you there are five who find it useful to keep their phones on during the movie, and any theater that makes their phones inoperable will see attendance decline dramatically.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  6. There should be many applications for this by zappepcs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Think of a more efficient microwave oven. If it can scatter radar signals, it might just be a better coating for the inside of microwave ovens.

    Then there is beamed power applications???

    Perhaps this might lead to a method of shielding astronauts on their way to Mars? If it can deflect/scatter radar, can it be made to protect the Hubble?

    There are literally thousands of applications where some shielding would be preferred to the current methods, especially in Military applications. I think that if he keeps it up, he might well help us discover how to shield from all manner of things. Shielding in Nuclear power plants is an issue that needs to be tackled better.

    Imagine that if it can deal with radar, perhaps there is a way that this can lead to better coatings for fiber optic cables? 30Gbps not good enough for you? How would 100 Gbps with FTTH sound? It's all in how you deal with shielding.

    Anything that is as thin as paint and does the job can lead to major improvements in many other things. I hope something really good comes of this and not just some Patriot Missle avoidance tactic.

    1. Re:There should be many applications for this by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 2, Informative

      Shielding in Nuclear power plants is an issue that needs to be tackled better.
      Actually, no, it isn't. I don't even think it's been an issue that needed to be tackled better within my lifetime. Nor would this help. 20 cm of rolled steel and 1.5 meters of reinforced concrete provides all the radiation protection you need until the pressure vessel ruptures.
  7. Re:Civilian use? by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Informative

    Oh, jeez...

    The transponders are in the airplanes, not on the airports. They help the airport's radar to see airplanes.

    A transponder is a combination of a receiver and a transmitter that receives the pulses from a radar; generates a train of pulses that encode the identification and altitude of the airplane; and transmits them back to the radar. That way the guy sitting at the radar not only sees the airplane more easily, but knows which airplane it is and how high.

    rj

  8. Re:Energy = heat by TransEurope · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actally the energy of radar is very low, except you stand directly in front of the emitter. Or when was the last time you got cooked by the radar from the airport next to you? You must have really good sensors to detect such low heat. I assume the heat of computers and electronics on board of a plane or the exhausts of the turbines are the much bigger problem for the one doesn't want to be 'seen'.

  9. Re:Civilian use? by Sique · · Score: 2, Informative
    If you had RTFA, then you would have stumbled upon the following lines:

    In one respect, however, Essen's message is disappointing. Drivers can't expect to become invisible to police radar traps anytime soon. "When an object is moving at such close range," he admits, "even the best shield paint doesn't do any good."
    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  10. Re:Civilian use? by chanrobi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    He said they were *used* by them, not *on* them. Time to level your reading skills.

  11. From TFA by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Nickel, who is literally bubbling over with ideas...
    Oh, is he? Does he literally carry a pan around to catch them? Do they literally need to mop up behind him when he walks across the room?
  12. Re:Civilian use? by RoboRay · · Score: 3, Informative

    That's really not how transponders work. They do not receive the radar pulses and send them back to the radar with ID information encoded into the pulses.

    They are totally seperate and unrelated systems operating on radically different frequencies. The only things they have in common is that the base station antenna is typically mounted somewhere on the rotating radar antenna so that they are ensured to both be pointing in the same direction, and they generally share a single display, with the information received from the airborne transponders superimposed over the radar video. You can break either system, and the other one will still work perfectly, just so long as the antenna is still turning and the display still works.

  13. civilian use by tbischel · · Score: 2, Funny

    "While it certainly is not unique, there is some interesting history behind the development, and a proposed civilian use."

    Finally, something better looking than tin foil to cover my house (and my hat)!

  14. Re:Civilian use? by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Informative

    You're describing the distinction between primary and secondary radar. Yes, they're separate systems, but they're both radars. One operates on reflected pulses ("skin painting"), the other on transponded pulses, but they both get their bearing information from the pointing direction of the antenna and their range information from the out-and-return travel time of the pulses. The only difference is that the secondary radar gets information that is furnished by the airborne installation: identification ("squawk code", including emergency and hijack notifications) and pressure altitude.

    rj

  15. Re:Or maybe the author is On LSD by Salus+Victus · · Score: 3, Informative

    When light hits a surface, it can be reflected, or transmitted. If' it's transmitted then it's going to go through the paint and strike the metal and be reflected.

    What are you talking about? Matt Black paint, applied to a mirror, does not result in a surface that reflects visible light.

    Paint can certainly absorb photons, and translate the energy to a wavelength no longer recognizable as related to the source.

    How did the parent post get rated so highly? Has the Slashdot community fallen so far that it's blinded by the mere mention of "scientific" concepts like index of refraction?

    --
    In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there's a big difference.
  16. Re:Or maybe the author is On LSD by slashnot007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When light hits a surface, it can be reflected, or transmitted. If' it's transmitted then it's going to go through the paint and strike the metal and be reflected. What are you talking about? Matt Black paint, applied to a mirror, does not result in a surface that reflects visible light. precisely my point. the black matte is many wavelengths thick in the visible. Radar has enormous wavelengths compared to the paint thickness. If black mat were 100th of a wavelenght thick then either 1) it would impedance match badly and therefore reflect 2) it would not be thick enough to absorb light.

    Paint can certainly absorb photons, and translate the energy to a wavelength no longer recognizable as related to the source. duh. this is known in physics as "absorption".

    How did the parent post get rated so highly? Has the Slashdot community fallen so far that it's blinded by the mere mention of "scientific" concepts like index of refraction? Maybe because I actually know what the hell I'm talking about?
  17. Not new, not even of this century by Ancient_Hacker · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Radar absorbing paint isn't as exotic as it sounds. Basically it's paint that is "black" at radar frequencies. Nothing more than iron or ferrite filings in a Rustoleum base. Or better yet, go to an airshow for a free sample. The F-16's usually have some good RAP flaking off by the nosegear cover hinges.

    The japanese have been painting RAP on their skyscrapers for decades now to lessen FM and TV ghosting.