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How Microsoft Dropped the Ball With Developers

cremou writes "As part of an Ars Technica series on how one developer migrated from Windows to OS X (and why), this second article concentrates on how Microsoft bungled the transition from XP to Vista. The author looks at some unfortunate decisions Microsoft made that have made Windows an unpleasant development platform. 'So Windows is just a disaster to write programs for. It's miserable. It's quite nice if you want to use the same techniques you learned 15 years ago and not bother to change how you do, well, anything, but for anyone else it's all pain... And it's not just third parties who suffer. It causes trouble for Microsoft, too. The code isn't just inconsistent and ugly on the outside; it's that way on the inside, too. There's a lot of software for Windows, a lot of business-critical software, that's not maintained any more. And that software is usually buggy. It passes bad parameters to API calls, uses memory that it has released, assumes that files live in particular hard-coded locations, all sorts of things that it shouldn't do.'"

10 of 814 comments (clear)

  1. With those arguements, any platform can suck by dreamchaser · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "It passes bad parameters to API calls, uses memory that it has released, assumes that files live in particular hard-coded locations, all sorts of things that it shouldn't do."

    Those are basically programming errors, not problems with the API. Don't get me wrong, I find Win32 to be a pain in the ass sometimes, but this article just reeks of flamebait.

    1. Re:With those arguements, any platform can suck by Ulfalizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think you missed the point.

      The problem is that many major legacy applications depend on undocumented behavior because they make sloppy use of the Windows API (e.g. by assuming that a particular function will not segfault when passed a bad argument). For those to keep working, newer revisions of the API implementation must have the same undocumented behavior, which causes a maintenance nightmare.

    2. Re:With those arguements, any platform can suck by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Those are basically programming errors, not problems with the API."

      I think you missed the point. For the sake of backwards compatibility, Microsoft supports applications which do all these things, and drags all the associated crap into future versions of Windows so they still run.

      For that matter, so do hardware developers: back when I was writing drivers for Windows I had to deliberately put bugs in our code to support applications which only worked because of bugs in the Microsoft versions of the drivers and would crash if we didn't replicate those bugs ourselves. We also spent weeks working around abuse of the API by a certain big computer company that can't program PCs worth a damn (or even, apparently, read API documentation).

    3. Re:With those arguements, any platform can suck by fimbulvetr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe the point was that MS fosters bad programming by keeping legacy API calls around indefintely, whilst other systems do not. I'm the last guy to ever go pro-apple on /., having "been there, done that", but he really does have a point. MS is afraid to deprecate bad ways in favor of keeping some minor share of customers happy.

      While this has short term benefits, the long term imposes a hefty penalty, the same penalty MS (and some of its developers) is paying now.

  2. Windows programming by buss_error · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Back before my current gig, I was a software developer for companies that hired me to do their work and for several packages I wrote for my own profit. This story comes from the programs I developed for my own profit.

    Because the software I wrote was also licensed for source code if the user wanted it, I picked Visual Basic as the platform to use. I wanted to use Visual C, but you could more easly find programmers that could get by in Visual Basic than VC. I should have picked VC rather than VB for a lot of reasons, the main one being that if you had experience in VC, you were at least likely not to be a total idiot. Not so with VB. I found that VB programmers were idiots at the approximate rate of 7:10, while VC programmers were likely to be idiots at an estimated 1:10 ratio... which isn't to say that all VB programmers were idiots, only that they were cheaper labor, and therefore less likely to have a solid background in programming logic.

    That said, we'll focus only on my own development problems, just so we are dealing with only one (possible) idiot... me. I started out with VB 2.x. The upgrade to 3.x went fine, with very few problems. When 4.0 came out, I found I had to rewrite about 20% of my code. Sure, there were conversion programs, but they didn't quite fit in with exactly what I wanted the program to do. It'd get it about 90% right, but then I'd have to slog through the rest of the automated code to correct that last 10%. It was faster to discard that code and re-write it.

    Then 5.x came out. Only about 50% of my code still worked. And again, the automated process to "ease" transisition left something to be desired. When Visual Studio 6.0 came out, it was a nightmare. only 20% of the code ported. At that point, I sent the 5.x code out to all the people that bought the program (with source or not), and told them that the code was now moribund, I would not be maintaining it, and that I was releaseing the source code to the public domain (5 floppies included). As I recall, that was about 1998-1999 or so.

    As late as March 2008, I've been contacted about the code. Of course, it's morphed far past anything I'd written, and I could only help with the general business case logic involved, not the actual code. But having to deal once again with Microsoft development tools, one would have to offer me far, far more money than it would be worth. No, I'm done with Microsoft "development" games. I'm done with school yard bullies trying to take my lunch money. I'm done, PERIOD, with closed source, whenever I have a choice.

    --
    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
  3. Re:Long Answer? by murdocj · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He has an axe to grind, but I'm not sure he has a point. For example, he talks about how .Net was supposed to insulate you from the vagaries of the Win32 interface,but failed. Then he talks about how the Win32 API returns the length of a file as two 32 values that have to be combined, instead of a 64 bit value. The part he leaves out is that .Net's system.IO.FileInfo does exactly what he wants... it returns the file length as a long 64 bit value. So why bring up the old 32 bit interface when you don't have to deal with it anymore? If that's the best he can do, his argument is in trouble.

  4. Re:Long Answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Then he talks about how the Win32 API returns the length of a file as two 32 values that have to be combined, instead of a 64 bit value. The part he leaves out is that .Net's system.IO.FileInfo does exactly what he wants This was a complaint about Win64. He had different specific complaints about .NET.

    If that's the best he can do, his argument is in trouble. If you can't even read his argument without getting mixed up, then your future is in trouble. (OTOH you have a bright future as a Slashdot poster. Not reading TFA is henceforth passé; reading it and getting it entirely wrong is the new standard.)
  5. Re:What part of "Undocumented" is hard to understa by gmack · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To make it more amusing those third party APIs slog through the win32 API hell so you don't have to.

    I think that's why Microsoft is afraid of breaking the old APIs. Once you have to go through the pain of porting to a new API why not just go cross platform?

  6. Re:Long Answer? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Im no programmer but the article seams short on facts & details and high on ms bashing & skimming. Is the article right or is it just well presented trolling? How can you say it seems to lack info when you're not even a programmer. For anyone who has done programming between good languages and MS languages will know he's spot on and it's been well documented that MS went back on their word to build a .Net based OS that started fresh.

    The problem is they know a lot of people aren't happy with Windows but it runs all their programs. Once the scrap that backwards compatibility and build something solid, despite the fact it may be their best OS ever, it's on a level playing field with the rest which means people have to find an alternative to their old programs and they might just pick something that isn't Windows and MS isn't having that.
  7. Re:Long Answer? by DrPizza · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, he is saying that the argument is confused because it mixes up Win32 and .NET. That's a problem with TFA. But the article doesn't do that, except when describing how details of Win32 leak into .NET.

    If you want to compare Windows and OS X as modern platforms, you need to compare the modern APIs, that is, .NET against Cocoa, nothing else. But you can't. MS has added new features to Win32 (and VC++/MFC), and MS is going to continue to do so in Windows Seven. For example, Vista has a new transacted (database-style ACID transactions, not just journalled) filesystem. .NET doesn't support it; you've got to use Win32 to use it. Even though .NET does have transaction support (for COM+ transactions and database transactions) it doesn't support TxNTFS. So you've gotta use Win32. Or how about an MS-supported ribbon control? You've got to use MFC, and in Windows Seven there should be a native code ribbon control as part of the OS proper. In both cases, no managed code.

    Having to drop into Win32 to call some legacy thing that no-one should really be doing but which you have to do for backwards compatibility, that I could sort of understand. But having to drop into Win32 to call new features that have only just been added? Anyone saying "stop using Win32, just use .NET" doesn't know what they're talking about.