Microsoft Acknowledges NBC's Wish is Its Command

theodp writes "Responding to questions about why some users of Windows Vista Media Center were prevented from recording the NBC Universal TV shows 'American Gladiator' and 'Medium,' Microsoft has acknowledged that Windows Media Centers will block users from recording TV shows at the request of a broadcaster. 'Microsoft included technologies in Windows based on rules set forth by the (Federal Communications Commission),' wrote a Microsoft spokeswoman, apparently referring to an FCC proposal that the courts struck down in 2005. 'Microsoft has put the requirements of broadcasters above what consumers want,' said the EFF's Danny O'Brien. 'They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires. Customers need to know who Microsoft is listening to and how that affects their equipment. Right now, the only way customers know what Microsoft has agreed to is when the technology they've bought suddenly stops working. Microsoft needs to come clean and tell its customers what deals it has made.'"

Comments

I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

[bleh-of-the-huns]

Last I checked... Tivo supports the broadcast flag as well, yet those of us (I have 2) with Tivo's had no issues... So I guess the question is, why is Tivo ignoring the broadcast flag (not that I am complaining mind you, I hate the broadcast flag), but I am curious..

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

[rasper99]

From what I remember the way Tivo series 2 works with the broadcast flag is that it will record it but you can't use Tivo2go to transfer the recording to your computer.

You can watch it on the Tivo all you want but that is all you can do with it. If you look at the information about a program recorded with the broadcast flag it should tell you that.

I believe I recorded a show with a broadcast flag a long time ago and it said that. Guess I'll have to record one of these shows just to double check.

Not sure what the Tivo series 3 and Tivo HD do with it. Should be the same.

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

[Anonymous Coward]

"They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires." -- Wrong and ignorant.

Microsoft has to program for more then one country you know. There is a wide range a laws and regulations that end up going into the media center programming - and yes, some of the programming will bleed over into the American version.

In Canada we see shows being blocked from recording using that flag all the time. Yes, its ok for a broadcaster here to stop us from recording a program.

I'm not saying i agree with it, but it's not as if Microsoft was screwing around with Americans just because they wanted to be a jerk.

I would put more blame on the broadcaster for playing around with the flag when they shouldn't.

In the meantime... Microsoft should release a patch that stops the DRM for those in America. It won't happen, but hey.

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

[gfxguy]

I'd have marked you up if I had points.

I'm definitely a nerd. With two kids. As an example of why I don't have an extra four or six hours to tinker, I spent last Saturday afternoon at a Pokemon tournament (can't stand Pokemon myself); in the morning I took one of them to his martial arts class. Sunday was food shopping and yard work. That's life as a dad, and I wouldn't have it any other way... but I don't have copious amounts of nerd time.

So, in other words, while I love tinkering, sometimes I just need stuff that works out of the box.

I get the same reaction from using Ubuntu instead of one of the other distributions, or switching to Windows for some applications... I'm sorry, I need stuff that works for me. That's all there is to it.

But to go back on topic, if ever the Tivo stopped recording shows I liked, I'd take the time out to build a Myth box, no doubt. Face it, as I mentioned, I don't even get to watch much TV, so when I do it's a bit more important to me that I get what I want.

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

[gnick]

I think using something like MythTv or Tivo is a massive waste of time because you still have to deal with the commercials. I use BeyondTV at home. The commercials are still recorded, but they're detected pretty robustly ~5-10 minutes after the program finishes recording. They show up in a different color in the progress bar when it's displayed and it's a single button press to skip each set.

Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag

[wc_paladin]

I think using something like MythTv or Tivo is a massive waste of time because you still have to deal with the commercials. mythtv scans for commercials and automatically skips them. It's pretty accurate, only every once in a while do I see a commercial in a recording, and I never get false positives.

Remote controlled PR-disaster

[YeeHaW_Jelte]

Sooo, it seems Microsoft has set itself up for a PR disaster and given the remote control to any content-provider that knows how to use the broadcast flags.

There is no better way to illustrate what restrictions DRM will have on the users day-to-day life, and Vista users will not like these demonstrations of Microsofts built-in Big Brother TM.

Re:Reminds me of ...

[mvdwege]

It would help the argument a lot if people would stop posting the link to Peter Gutman's first paper. He already has acknowledged that some facts were based on pre-release versions of Vista, and Microsoft trial-balloons.

The newer slideshow addresses much the same issues, without the minor holes the MS astroturfers can use to misdirect attention away from the main points.

Mart

Re:How fast will a hack appear for this ?

[sm62704]

In fact I would be surprised that the hack is already out there

It is, the fix is here.

NBC and Microsoft pattern

[theurge14]

15 July 1996: Microsoft and NBC form MSNBC.
31 Aug 2007: NBC pulls all content from iTunes Store.
6 May 2008: NBC puts content on Zune Store.
Now: NBC has Microsoft block Windows Media Center from recording certain shows.

What other wonderful developments can we expect?

Re:Nothing to see here

[digitalaudiorock]

Actually, Mythtv is pretty easy to set up now Especially for those in the U.S. who are only using an antenna and target their system for digital only as I did (which of course is all there will be after 2/2009). An all digital mythtv system for OTA is really slick and straight forward. The backend process just writes the mpeg ts directly to disk with no encoding and virtually no CPU (unless you auto-flag commercials...which is soooo cool by the way). I have three pcHDTV tuners in a Dell 4600 for my backend machine and it records three HD shows at once (even while watching a fouth previously recorded show from the frontend) without a hitch. The $20/year for schedulesdirect.org listings will be the best $20 you've ever spent...those folks did an awesome job.

Just bear in mind that the CPU requirements for playing HD on the frontend are pretty high....2.8 or 3 Ghz at least. You also need a lot of disk for the 6+ GB/hour of HD mpeg.

For anyone with a decent amount of linux experience it's not difficult on any decent distro. My frontend and backend are both Gentoo, and frankly I think it's ideal, as it's easy to build a system with only what's needed for myth and nothing more.

Oh yea...and this whole thing with M$ and the broadcast flag...I can't believe they're enforcing a rule that was struck down my the courts at the expense of their customers...that's pretty amazing even for them.

Re:Damned either way

[Wylfing]

The American people in 1776 would have happily followed the English herders if it were not for a very few well financed and abled revolutionaries.

I had to point out that this is incorrect, in both its substance and conclusion. The common chatter in pubs for nearly a decade leading up to 1776 was that the "sheep" (as you want to call them) -- i.e., the common people -- were ready to take up arms to expel the British presence in the colonies. This was in no small part due to the quartering of British troops in private American homes, and the attendant problems of having a large standing army permanently hanging out in American cities without an enemy to fight.

The lesson here is not that people will do what they're told. Just the opposite. If you push enough people for a long enough time, you build an undercurrent of resentment that will eventually manifest in a dramatic way. Put another way, get off your goddamn elitist high horse about how the unwashed masses are idiotic sheep. People are not as dumb or as docile as you want to believe.

try reading documents instead of burning them

[Anonymous Coward]

(apologies for the bad Indy joke)

I don't know how your post got modded to "5, Insightful" when it should have been "0, Flamebait".

Read a little and learn something Informative, junior:

The terms http://www.cablelabs.com/udcp/downloads/DFAST_Tech_License.pdf/ of just one of the licenses necessary for selling a Uni-Directional Cable Product (better known to you as "CableCard support") requires the vendors to obey these copy-control flags (including the flag that says not to make even an initial recording). TivoHD and Tivo Series 3 recorders as well as newer versions of Windows Media Center support CableCards and thus are contractually obligated to obey this flag even when the station or cable company screwed up and mis-set it; MythTV does not support CableCards and that is why it ignores the flags. Tivo Series 2 recorders do not support CableCards and, accordingly, continue pay no attention to the flags because there is no contractual obligation for them to do so.

This was not a result of MS stepping on end-users or Tivo having been paid off by broadcasters. This is a result of the FCC giving a broadcast-industry group final authority over the licenses a DVR needs to support digital-cable.

Re:Blaming Microsoft?

[UnknowingFool]

While the broadcast flag is certainly not a required thing to honor, it is something the content providers wanted and something that doesn't really negatively affect consumers unless the content provider wishes so.

I guess you didn't RTFA or at least the summary. Consumers are already negatively affected when they are blocked from recording their shows from NBC. For some TV programs, there may be re-runs. For live TV shows, there may be no way to record them again.

The fact of the matter is: It's not up to Microsoft to decide for you NOR the content provider. Microsoft can't tell the content provider "screw you" because you want to skip by some commercials on TV.

It is up to MS whether or not to honor the broadcast flag. They have chosen to do so while Tivo does not. MythTV does not. The United States Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit has already ruled that the FCC could not force manufacturers to adhere to it.

Without support for DRM in Windows, we wouldn't have the ability to watch things such as blu-ray. This will become more important as the drives become cheaper and people start loading them up in their HTPC setups.

Huh? Blu-ray has nothing to do with Windows. In fact, MS went against Blu-ray for HD-DVD. However, the point of the article is that MS is taking away the rights of consumer to record broadcast programs and play them back.

That said, let's look at the law here. You have no "constitutional" rights in the US to do whatever you want with whatever you want. You have no "rights" to download, store, digitally alter media produced by someone else if they don't want you to.

Again, this article is about people not being able to record their favorite programs on their Media Center. This is not about file sharing. You do not have rights to alter the media, however, you do have a right to record and store it. In Sony v. Universal, the Supreme Court ruled that consumers can record whole programs and watch them later (called time-shifting).