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Huge Leap Forward In Robotic Limb Replacement

Posted by kdawson on from the arms-and-the-man dept.

BlueshiftVFX sends us to Wired for some video of the impressive, mind-controlled prosthetic robot arm invented by Dean Kamen. "Kamen's arm, dubbed 'Luke' (after Skywalker, I assume), is an incredibly sophisticated bit of engineering that's lightyears ahead of the clamping 'claws' that many amputees are forced to use today. The arm is fully articulated, giving the user the same degrees of movement as a natural arm, and is sensitive enough to pick up a piece of paper, a wineglass, or even a grape without mishap."

46 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. Woo... by Izabael_DaJinn · · Score: 5, Funny
    You guys should be excited. Think about what this will do for the pen1s enlarg3m3nt industry.

    Not only would they be "fully articulated" in the bedroom they would also be "sensitive enough" to pick up flowers & wine beforehand.

    --
    Careful What You Wish For....
    1. Re:Woo... by LrdDimwit · · Score: 3, Funny

      Perhaps it's just me, but I am generally using other body parts to pick up the flowers and the wine.

  2. More appropriate headline by s4m7 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Dean Kamen is Finally Back to Inventing Useful Things

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    This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    1. Re:More appropriate headline by bfl · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Invented by Dean Kaman is a bit of an exaggeration. The arm is the result of a DARPA project overseen by Deka, and involving a laundry list of partners including the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago and the University of New Brunswick. See here for the UNB page about the project.

    2. Re:More appropriate headline by Geak · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The sad thing is, something like this should have been invented a long time ago. We've had the technology and the ability to do it for years, and at the very least Star Wars or the Bionic Man/Woman should have inspired someone to build this. I'd be willing to bet someone has designed and built a prosthetic arm like this a long time ago, but insurance companies have probably worked very hard to keep it from ever getting to market or any publicity.

    3. Re:More appropriate headline by RsG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why would you assume that?

      I mean first up, why the insurance industry? Second, what makes you think anyone has the clout to repress this sort of technology?

      Robot limbs that operate at or near the human level have a multitude of uses beyond just prosthetics. Offhand, I can think of hazardous material handling, remote surgery, bomb disposal, space exploration - basically anywhere you want a human hand, and don't want the mess that comes with having a warm body in the immediate area.

      If you're right, and the potential to build just such a device has existed for years, then everyone from NASA to the nuclear industry would be all over it. Against that, those pissants in insurance don't stand a chance.

      Plus, there's a fairly strong military interest in the prosthetic angle. There are plenty of war-vet amputees who'd benefit, giving DARPA both a practical and a PR benefit if they demonstrated a working model.

      I just don't see it happening yet. Note the "leap forward" phrasing - this is still below the level of a bionic hand that can adequately replace the flesh and blood version. We're nowhere near the star wars/bionic man level. I mean, we'll get there, and probably within my lifetime and yours, but stuff like nerve-computer connections and effective tactile senses are still in their infancy.

      --
      Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
    4. Re:More appropriate headline by redxxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course, it isn't any sort of leap forward, and anyone who has been paying attention to the industry would see that like most new bits of technology, it is part of a long gradual development progress.

      Since about 2000 they've been making real progress in control systems, and impoverishment in material engineering have allowed for more lifelike prosthetic. Better electronics have made everything smaller.

      They've finally put both together into something that can be used by patients, without lugging around a massive power source and computer.

      No one has been suppressing the technology. This shit is hard and takes huge amounts of effort, and saying otherwise(saying a ridiculous conspiracy is responsible for the time it's taken)is a massive slap in the face of people who have dedicated themselves to helping disabled people lead better lives.

  3. :-( Insurance by lantastik · · Score: 5, Informative

    I can't tell you how excited I would be if any insurance company on the planet would actually pay for this. I have a friend who lost his left arm fighting in the name of our country. So far three different insurance carriers have all denied him any kind of advanced prosthetic. It's sad...

    1. Re::-( Insurance by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I can't tell you how excited I would be if any insurance company on the planet would actually pay for this. I have a friend who lost his left arm fighting in the name of our country. So far three different insurance carriers have all denied him any kind of advanced prosthetic. It's sad... Are you in the US? If he was in the military, why is he dealing with insurance carriers at all?

      And are you saying he has triple coverage through three different companies?

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re::-( Insurance by s4m7 · · Score: 5, Informative

      If he was in the military, why is he dealing with insurance carriers at all?

      Yes because VA hospitals are great and there's always room in them. They just hand out whatever care you want because you Served Your Country.

      No seriously the republicans just blocked the expansion of VA benefits.

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      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    3. Re::-( Insurance by mazarin5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hell, my father is just now getting treatment for problems caused by his stint in Vietnam!

      --
      Fnord.
    4. Re::-( Insurance by purpleraison · · Score: 2, Informative

      He is entitled to treatment from the Veterans Administration if he was in the U.S. military when he lost it. If he is not being treated, then the best recourse would be to file a complaint with the Veterans Administration and/or to his local Senator (or other political schmuck).

      By default, when you outprocess from active duty, all conditions that were treated while on active duty may be considered for continuing treatment and disability payment.

      There are also lawyers who help veterans get access to these benefits, who work for the V.A. -- so there is no charge for their services, so I suppose the lawyer would be the first person to contact.

      --
      I am open source, and Linux baby!
    5. Re::-( Insurance by couchslug · · Score: 5, Informative

      "I have a friend who lost his left arm fighting in the name of our country. So far three different insurance carriers have all denied him any kind of advanced prosthetic. It's sad..."

      I'm a vet and I smell trollage. "name of our country" - WTF?? Branch of service would do for a start.

      No private carrier would even be involved with a combat injury, and actual denial of care would be grounds
      for calling up the VA chain of command with a parallel chat with local and state elected officials. The VA has
      screwed up but there are plenty of folks willing to raise a stink in behalf of a legit claim. Join the DAV (Disabled American Veterans) and the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) for a start.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    6. Re::-( Insurance by conlaw · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, based on experiences I have witnessed, the best first contact is your local American Legion, VFW or DAV representative. He or she knows exactly how the system works and how to get your needs met. They often have an office in the VA Hospital and title something like Service Liaison or something else equally unmemorable.

    7. Re::-( Insurance by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes because VA hospitals are great and there's always room in them. They just hand out whatever care you want because you Served Your Country. I agree with the general sentiment you've expressed; but you don't have the logistics quite correct. The VA system and the military health system are largely separate, somewhat parallel organizations (when my career military father fell ill with a terminal illness, I learned a lot about this). That's part of the problem - the reduncancy of these two hugely bureaucratic systems. The VA is supposed to be there for exactly this situation; but the military also has its own rehab and long-term care programs. In my experience what was best for the patient fell second to the turf war between these groups. Thank goodness my mom was patiently advocating for my dad, figured out the system (while there are people within the system whose job it is to help with this, they are not actually easy to find!), and eventually got him switched to VA care. At that point he was treated pretty well (not meant as an indictment of his individual military care givers; but that system is not particularly well suited to long-term care).

      I would think that, as a country, we could provide much better care - and still save some money - by separating out military health care from the military programs, combining it with a revamped VA and making it just one program that serves all branches + veterans/retirees.
      --
      #DeleteChrome
    8. Re::-( Insurance by lantastik · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm a vet and I smell trollage. "name of our country" - WTF?? Branch of service would do for a start. Marine Corps, honorably discharged in 1992 after the first war in Iraq. My comment had nothing to do with trolling. It's sad that he had to lose his arm performing a completely selfless act for his country.

      The most he ever received from the VA was a limb with a hook on the end. The three insurance carriers are from his three different employers from then until now.

      What makes you think his insurance carriers are not responsible for a pre-existing condition when his prosthetic needs replaced or is damaged? Sure they replace it, but not with anything worth a damn.
  4. "Named after Skywalker, I assume" by empaler · · Score: 5, Informative

    That snippet really sums up the quality of the linked article.
    In both the linked pages from the Wired article, it is explained in the first paragraph that, yes, this is inspired by Luke's prosthetic hand. All Things Digital article, Gizmodo article.

  5. Human Rights Management by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How long until the government mandates that these must have HRM on them (Human Rights Management) which would make it impossible to do certain "illegal" things. For example if it doesn't think you are 21 you can't pick up a beer bottle or a wine glass, it wouldn't let you pull a trigger of a gun, nor wield a knife defensively. Now, this technology is still 25-75 years off before it could actually be used, but could it be that in 150 years you would have to have your normal arms either amputated or modified to support Human Rights Management?

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Human Rights Management by maxume · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you live in a democracy, start thinking of yourself as part of the government. Then, society mandates things and they seem even stupider.

      Sure, something can call itself a democracy and not be a democracy, but if you don't at least think of it as a democracy, it sure as hell isn't ever going to be one.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Human Rights Management by Worthless_Comments · · Score: 4, Informative

      Democracy is the worst form of government ... except all the others that have been tried.

      It's a lot less misleading when you actually finish the quote.

  6. Why stop at "human like" articulation? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design.

    1. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by s4m7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've wondered about this: if the technology improved to the point where you could feel all the sensations with a prosthetic arm as with your original arm, but the materials were stronger, faster and more flexible, why not replace them voluntarily?

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      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    2. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design. The glaringly obvious answer is that people want to appear and function just like a "normal" person, and would prefer not to be stared at while they're picking out apples in the grocery department.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why only have an elbow and wrist and five fingers? Why not make an articulated arm that has more 'elbow' joints and two opposing digits (read: thumbs). If the brain isn't used to controlling 6 finger/digits, could it learn the task? Surely a wrist that could rotate 180degrees in either direction would be better than our current design. The glaringly obvious answer is that people want to appear and function just like a "normal" person, and would prefer not to be stared at while they're picking out apples in the grocery department. Yeah but I could pick up the other shoppers and throw them hundreds of feet if they stared at me. I AM IRONMAN.
      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    4. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

      (Besides, the technology is just too new.)

    5. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by mikael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      With "reinnervation", they graft the nerves that used to lead to the arm/hand/fingers and reattach them to the chest muscles. Electrodes in the base of the prosthesis pick up these electrical signals and use them to move the arm. It would be possible to reassign different signals to different arm movements, but you won't be able to control any more muscles than you had before.

      Maybe with electrodes implanted in the brain this would be possible - people were able to control a cursor with their thoughts. But it would require many more electrodes to be able to control an entire arm.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    6. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by Smidge204 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm sure most people would just want their old arm back.

      But honestly? If I'm getting an artificial body part I want an upgrade. Artificial arms need "Inspector Gadget" type tools built into them. artificial legs need built-in roller blades or "kangaroo boot" springs. Artificial eyes need video-in jacks, zoom and swappable IR vision filters.

      I'm not sure I'd have a perfectly good body part removed for one - especially at this stage in tech - but if anything happens and I'm getting it anyway...
      =Smidge=

    7. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by Zarf · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I imagine it's much harder than you may think to pick up a control scheme for a part of your body that's not only never existed on your body, but never existed in the history of your species.

      But, more to the point, I think they ought to focus on the basics before adding on extra fingers and elbows ;) Actually, I'd like to test this hypothesis. I'll bet we'll be shocked to find out that it's actually easy for people who are young enough. I know, that's counter-intuitive, but I suspect that the reason there is a yawning chasm between generations and their use of technology is not that old folks are Luddites but that some folks can't adapt to the mental augmentation that is the exo-cortex of the Internet.

      Notice that we don't see this chasm in older baby-boomers. I think that means we won't see another gaping technology chasm between generations. The computers are here now and brains are adapting to them. Other threads on slashdot have discussed the idea that computer programs become mental extensions just as tools become extensions of people's bodies. Stories of ancient knights speak of warriors fighting until they could not tell their arms from their swords.

      So I'd bet that using that "mental extension into the tool" effect you really could find ways to add on novel new cybernetic body-parts and that the brains of mammals are actually adaptive enough to deal with it. I think this will be true because of the structure of mammal brains and its ability to re-wire itself.

      After all don't you wince when you hit something in your car? Some people even exclaim "ouch" as if they were themselves hurt. I suspect it's an artifact of being able to use tools that enables us to tack on a tool as a "temporary body part"
      --
      [signature]
    8. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by Rangsk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This reminds me of the Star Trek: TNG episode, "The Measure of a Man"

      Quote taken from: http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0001459/quotes

      Capt. Picard: Data, I understand your objections. But I have to consider Star Fleet's interests. What if Commander Maddox is correct - there is a possibility that many more beings like yourself can be constructed?
      Lt. Commander Data: Sir, Lieutenant La Forge's eyes are far superior to human biological eyes, true?
      Capt. Picard: Mm-hmm.
      Lt. Commander Data: Then why are not all human officers required to have their eyes replaced with cybernetic implants?
      [Picard considers this, pauses, then looks away from Data]
      Lt. Commander Data: I see. It is precisely because I am *not* human.

      --
      "Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose." --Douglas Adams
    9. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by bperkins · · Score: 2, Funny

      This issue was very thoughtfully covered in Strong Bad Email 47.

    10. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by Hucko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You, sir, have it right. Put it on a wireless caterpillar track base, and multiple telescopic arms. There doesn't seem to be too many reasons to attach them to the body.

      --
      Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
    11. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by dlevitan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've wondered about this: if the technology improved to the point where you could feel all the sensations with a prosthetic arm as with your original arm, but the materials were stronger, faster and more flexible, why not replace them voluntarily? I think a good reason would be power requirements. All prosthetics I believe require batteries. I suppose you could have enough batteries that you could just charge your arms and legs overnight. But, quite frankly, I feel powerless enough when I can't see anything when I first wake up. Not having any arms would be even worse.

      If anything, I think that concentrating on either exoskeletons (as has been reported in recent articles) or maybe on strengthening the body itself with implants would be much more productive and useful. Maybe there would be a way to augment the body's muscles to make them stronger, for example. However, I doubt this will happen anytime soon.
    12. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by barzok · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because body part replacement is a bitch and something you do because you have to, not because you want to. My father recently had his hip replaced because he took an odd fall - his femur broke just below the ball, and the given his relatively young age and activity level, a full Titanium replacement (ball and socket) was deemed to be the best option for him. The bones were in perfect condition, he just landed on it in such a way that it broke.

      He's going to have some degree of limp for the rest of his days and walk with a cane. He has a list of things that he either can't do, or has to be extremely careful while doing (mundane things like bending over to tie his shoes even). His doctors and therapists have done a terrific job - but there's only so much that can be done.

      Even if a replacement body part would have "more capabilities" than OEM parts, the problems that go along with the actual replacement may make it more trouble than it's worth.

    13. Re:Why stop at "human like" articulation? by IdeaMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I took robotics in college.

      The human arm is an absolute marvel of engineering. The number of degrees of freedom, the range of motion, the sensitivity of its sensors, the amount of control it has are phenomenal. When you build an arm that can beat a human arm that I can afford to replace when it wears out (mine repairs itself), please let me know.
      Otherwise I'm in the market for another pair of arms tied to a lower body exoskeleton capable of lifting a couple thousand pounds.

      --
      They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
  7. Control of real limbs? by markk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So can this be adapted with some work to control real limbs of quadraplegics and paraplegics? Seems like something that could be done with some kind of muscle or nerve stimulation. One could imagine a direct stimulation of nerves in the arm based on this kind of signals. A person could actually "teach" the system to get some kind of use of limbs - even if there is no feeling.

    1. Re:Control of real limbs? by Grym · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So can this be adapted with some work to control real limbs of quadraplegics and paraplegics? Seems like something that could be done with some kind of muscle or nerve stimulation. One could imagine a direct stimulation of nerves in the arm based on this kind of signals. A person could actually "teach" the system to get some kind of use of limbs - even if there is no feeling.

      It's not that simple. In the case of a quadriplegic with complete spinal transection, for instance, the spinal reflexes would still be intact and likely over-reactive. So, even if external stimulation were applied to cause appropriate muscular contraction, without the proper modulation and inhibition from the upper motor neurons in the brain, any resulting movement would be very jerky and unreliable. Plus, there's the whole issues of muscular tone and posture which are themselves complex and would need to be addressed before these individuals could actually do anything functional.

      But, more importantly, sensation is not a luxury. It is absolutely required for proper movement of our extremities. Without access to touch, pain, or proprioceptive (joint-position/vibration) information, the controlling system would have no idea how to properly modulate its stimulation for even basic tasks. Even more troubling, such a system would very easily lead to broken bones, dislocated joints, and torn muscles and blood vessels without the patient even knowing it. All of these could be life-threatening if not found and treated in time.

      I'm going to go out on a limb (no pun intended) and predict that it's unlikely that this technology will ever be applied beyond prosthetics. For quadriplegics and paraplegics, the most promising developments will probably be nerve-regeneration techniques, as this leverages the already exquisite circuitry in our bodies devoted to movement.

      -Grym

  8. luke by rubycodez · · Score: 3, Funny

    not named for skywalker, it longs for freedom even as its ordered to dig and fill a hole again and again and wins egg eating contests.

  9. Mecha on the moon by Zarf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Am I the only one that sees this as an exciting new way to control giant robots and Mecha? One of the demo videos shows an engineer who has not lost an arm controlling the device as a third arm. That could mean the creation of a real-life Doctor Octopus ... or even a way to control real life Mecha or telerobotic space exploration systems for mining the moon!

    --
    [signature]
    1. Re:Mecha on the moon by Robert1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes you are. When I think of miniaturized wearable prosthetics I don't think about how exciting it would be to control giant robots or "Mecha," whatever that is. Also, had you actually watched the video, they tell you the guy with the 3rd arm had it controlled by someone off camera. Regardless, some actual info about your statement:

      Yeah, that's not new at all. Surgeons have been using remote robotics for YEARS to do micro-surgery. Recently they've even started to do telesurgery, where the surgeon experienced in one particular procedure lives half way around the world and uses a robotic interface to work with the robot in the operating room thousands of miles away.

      There's really no barrier to using it for moon robots, although I can't imagine the benefit of directly controlling them. Plus, there's like a 2.5 second lag which would make it a chore to directly control. Basically it would be pretty stupid and worthless to have a direct interface like that. Anyway, all the mars probes and such are essentially the same thing, none of them are really automated and have to have everything done by direct input from NASA. Of course, their input is keyboards and buttons since they have to plot out what the rover/probe will do exactly as physical speed limits stop them from ever controlling something in real time.

      To put it more simply, you'll only ever be able to use something like this (direct input) when controlling something on Earth or reasonable close - like something on the ISS.

  10. Re:Another not-article reading whiner. by foniksonik · · Score: 4, Informative

    ahemmmm.... muscles ARE controlled by the mind... voluntary and involuntary. The method they used was to 'train' the prosthetic by asking the guy to do something, seeing how the arm responded to his mental commands/instincts/whatever, then re-calibrated the arm to do the action... with a few days of training you could have the arm responding to a large range of voluntary coordinations.

    --
    A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  11. good step in the right direction by jollyreaper · · Score: 3, Funny

    Artificial limbs won't truly be kick-ass until they're better than the organic limbs they replace. And they need to make that reverb sproinging sound whenever they do something cool.

    --
    Kwisatz Haderach
    Sell the spice to CHOAM
    This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
  12. Not a huge leap forward. by mrbluze · · Score: 2, Funny

    Not only would they be "fully articulated" in the bedroom they would also be "sensitive enough" to pick up flowers & wine beforehand. So this is a huge grope forward, not a huge leap forward as the title suggests.
    --
    Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
  13. pattipace7@yahoo.com by pattipace · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is the normal weight of the missing limb factored into the design? I am a 50 year old disabled vet and most of the vets I see are only comfortable for a period of time with the prosthetic. Since 1991 I have carried the dead weight of my right hand around. The last seven years has also included the dead weight of my right arm and shoulder. My neck and whole spine is bent to the right now. I would feel much better if I knew this new generation of Veterans would get prosthetics that they will be able to keep on using. Is the natural weight of the limb factored into the design? Thanks!

    1. Re:pattipace7@yahoo.com by SlashWombat · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the second video, it was stated that the arm weight was modeled on a womens arm. I think 8.8 pounds was the stated figure, which does not seem like much considering the arm appears to offer the same range of movements as a normal arm.

      I was a bit curious that the nerves were wired to chest muscles ... A bionic ear (cochlea implant) used to use a small rubbery gadget with 64 "needles" that would prick into the aural nerve when the rubber was wraped around it. (which gave 32 channels to excite that bundle of nerve fibres.) I am surprised something like that wasn't employed (in reverse ... as pick-ups) in at least some of the experiments.

  14. Re:Speaking as a luddite... by SlashWombat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Really? Could we experiment on you? Of course, we need to remove both your arms first, and leave you that way for a few years before we even begin to attempt to "train" you to use the replacement. Hope your good at holding your bladder, or your going to wet yourself whilst pleading with someone to unzip you, and provide the aiming ...

    Seriously, this thing is amazing. Now all we need is a brain replacement for about 50% of the people who respond with off topic or plainly ridiculous statements in their posts on/to slashdot!

    Maybe news for turds is more apt in a fair percentage of cases?!

  15. It's been done.... by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 2, Informative

    Have you never seen the incredibly bad B-flick "Space Truckers"? It pretty much defines robo-penis to a fault.

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    8==8 Bones 8==8