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EBay Pressured To Block Sales of Ivory Products
RickRussellTX writes "eBay is being pressured
by an animal welfare group to ban sales of ivory and animal tooth
products on its site. Although eBay is in compliance with the Convention on
International Trade in Endangered Species when it warns users that
such postings may be inviolation of national and international law, the
International Fund for Animal Welfare
is demanding that they go a step further to search for and delete any
posting of ivory products."
Where there is a demand, someone will supply, and a market will spring up. Perhaps eBay should get out on moral grounds, but if these folks think it will make a dent in the trade, they are naive.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
Well then - how am I going to sell my old piano then?
Yeah but black markets exist already and for many people the desire to possess such an item is not large enough to get involved with the black market.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Reading the story, it doesn't seem like there's a single demonstrated case of illegal ivory sale on EBay, just a lot of numbers being thrown around about ivory sales overall.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
So just because there's no magic bullet everyone should just let them do it unimpeded?
Same for drugs, kiddie-porn and nuke warhead sales?
With that mentality, why bother doing anything which isn't easily accomplished in one small step!
They're not exempted from this - I haven't read the article yet (of course) but it says ebay follows all of the laws.
This group wants them to go not sell any Ivory - no antiques, pianos, etc. Nothing. Even if it's perfectly legal.
Next will be any fur and leather products. Stay tuned!
DATABASE WOW WOW
Not going for flamebait here... What if I have a pair of antique ivory chopsticks bought a long, long time ago and I wish to sell them on eBay to a U.S. customer? That is legal, correct? So why punish all of us wishing to use eBay for legal purposes? Wait, I can get drugs, prostitutes and many other illegal goods and services, so shut the whole thing down? Stopping people from legitimate uses in order to halt illegal ones seems to be a slippery slope. I am actually all for stopping modern trade in modern ivory, but to ban something the law allows sounds like censorship to appease a cause.
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(Disclaimer: I'm the OP.)
The issue that bothers me, and it has nothing to do with elephants or ivory, is that eBay is merely a silent broker in these transactions. Could you realistically expect the relevant carriers of information to ban exchanges of ivory arranged over e-mail? Over postal mail? The telephone? At swap meets?
eBay has built the smoothest, most liquid, easiest-to-use method of arranging private sales between geographically disparate private parties. That results in transaction volume that far exceeds the capability of any single person to review it (and read TFA and you'll see that even IFAW built its statistics by doing the most basic text searches -- they didn't actually try to verify anything).
Organizations that like to tell people what to do and get themselves in the news, like the IFAW, hate such liquid markets. They want all transactions involving their particular interest to be monitored, filtered, verified, etc. Even though they are not willing to do it themselves.
So if we monitor, filter, and verify transactions involving ivory, where do we stop? Do we ever stop? Does private enterprise go away and get replaced by "monitored and certified enterprise"?
The International Fund for Animal Welfare is just trolling for attention. It's a tried and true technique. Attack a large and popular entity and charge them with the responsibility of handling your pet project to save the world.
How about this "International Fund for Animal Welfare"? Instead of bitching real loud, how about you bid for the ivory, then tell the sellers that you will pick it up. Show up at the seller's door with law enforcement.
Oh, I see. That doesn't get you free advertisement for your fund raising efforts.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Where you gonna get a nuke warhead?
For the rest of your stupid argument - yes. Kiddie porn is already made, and drugs fall under "my body, my right."
They restrict weapon sales too, which are *totally* legal if done according to the state/federal rules.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
eBay needs a competitor who is willing to sell all the things eBay won't (lawfully acquired ivory, concert and sporting tickets of all types, legal second-hand copies of AutoCad, Scientology e-meters), along with everything else. Also one who takes payments other than PayPal. Someone like that ought to eventually eat eBay's lunch.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Gun Control: The theory that 110 pound women should have to fistfight with 220 pound rapists.
|For the rest of your stupid argument - yes. Kiddie porn is already made, and drugs fall under "my body, my right."
At least until you wind up addicted and so far out of your mind you'll mug little old ladies to get your next fix.
Then I go to jail for mugging little old ladies. Problem solved.
Hmm. I would never have guessed that, but I suppose the fifty-year rule could still apply. I buy a lot of beads, what with one thing and another, and I have a few observations. First, if everything billed as mammoth ivory were really mammoth ivory, the mammoths would never have become extinct. Second, I do not sell on Ebay and trust very little of what I buy there. I use it only for the very cheapest staple items, and I purchase trivial lots first when I'm checking out a seller. I'd never buy gemstone beads there, and there are precisely two sellers from whom I'll by vintage beads. So a healthy dose of skepticism can be your best friend. Finally, I collect vintage and new fountain pens. I guess that's similar to straight razors in some senses. While I've had a couple of stellar buys on Ebay, I regard that as "hobby money" and would not cry too hard if "stung." Still, I've found it's better to become involved with several groups of like-minded collectors. In smaller groups, it's easier to check out reputations, etc. For these purposes, something like Yahoo can turn out to be a good starting point; if you're collecting it, chances are there's a group of people into the same thing. That can serve as as a connecting point to other groups and to reputable buyers and sellers. (I suggest Yahoo because many collectors aren't especially technical and find it easiest to use.) It's also possible, within a good group, to gain reliable knowledge about things like Germany's ivory laws.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
Remember, open source is free as in speech, not free as in bear.
You make it sound like the "black market" is a dark hostile entity that requires one cut off their left pinky-toe and murder a man.
The black market is everywhere. You probably know someone, who knows someone, who knows where to get Ivory. Or heroin. Or modchips. Or unlocked phones. Or dishnet cards. Maybe you know a mechanic who does work on the side, in cash. That's black market too!
The black market is anything and everything that either sidesteps legal control, or evades taxes. It is a term created by government (and the ethically fragile) to create an "Us vs Them" perspective against things that are beyond their control. If Bush were to outlaw the Qur'an, any sales of the book would be considered black market transactions. That's all it means.
For most people, honest or otherwise, it isn't much of a leap to acquire "black market" goods. It's not something that keeps people up at night in cold sweat. It's just some guy who doesn't give you a receipt with your purchase.
-Billco, Fnarg.com