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EBay Pressured To Block Sales of Ivory Products
RickRussellTX writes "eBay is being pressured
by an animal welfare group to ban sales of ivory and animal tooth
products on its site. Although eBay is in compliance with the Convention on
International Trade in Endangered Species when it warns users that
such postings may be inviolation of national and international law, the
International Fund for Animal Welfare
is demanding that they go a step further to search for and delete any
posting of ivory products."
Where there is a demand, someone will supply, and a market will spring up. Perhaps eBay should get out on moral grounds, but if these folks think it will make a dent in the trade, they are naive.
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
That will work great for my new eBay listing...
African Elephant - tusks removed - contains 0% Ivory!
Those who believe the Internet is private,
find their privates are on the Internet.
Time for me to start re-selling Ivory Soap on eBay if they do. I love to help other folks train their word filters. Like the NSA. God is great, isn't he?
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Yeah but black markets exist already and for many people the desire to possess such an item is not large enough to get involved with the black market.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
So just because there's no magic bullet everyone should just let them do it unimpeded?
Same for drugs, kiddie-porn and nuke warhead sales?
With that mentality, why bother doing anything which isn't easily accomplished in one small step!
They're not exempted from this - I haven't read the article yet (of course) but it says ebay follows all of the laws.
This group wants them to go not sell any Ivory - no antiques, pianos, etc. Nothing. Even if it's perfectly legal.
Next will be any fur and leather products. Stay tuned!
DATABASE WOW WOW
...Live together in perfect harmony.
(let's sing together !)
-- Rastignac was here.
Not going for flamebait here... What if I have a pair of antique ivory chopsticks bought a long, long time ago and I wish to sell them on eBay to a U.S. customer? That is legal, correct? So why punish all of us wishing to use eBay for legal purposes? Wait, I can get drugs, prostitutes and many other illegal goods and services, so shut the whole thing down? Stopping people from legitimate uses in order to halt illegal ones seems to be a slippery slope. I am actually all for stopping modern trade in modern ivory, but to ban something the law allows sounds like censorship to appease a cause.
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(Disclaimer: I'm the OP.)
The issue that bothers me, and it has nothing to do with elephants or ivory, is that eBay is merely a silent broker in these transactions. Could you realistically expect the relevant carriers of information to ban exchanges of ivory arranged over e-mail? Over postal mail? The telephone? At swap meets?
eBay has built the smoothest, most liquid, easiest-to-use method of arranging private sales between geographically disparate private parties. That results in transaction volume that far exceeds the capability of any single person to review it (and read TFA and you'll see that even IFAW built its statistics by doing the most basic text searches -- they didn't actually try to verify anything).
Organizations that like to tell people what to do and get themselves in the news, like the IFAW, hate such liquid markets. They want all transactions involving their particular interest to be monitored, filtered, verified, etc. Even though they are not willing to do it themselves.
So if we monitor, filter, and verify transactions involving ivory, where do we stop? Do we ever stop? Does private enterprise go away and get replaced by "monitored and certified enterprise"?
The International Fund for Animal Welfare is just trolling for attention. It's a tried and true technique. Attack a large and popular entity and charge them with the responsibility of handling your pet project to save the world.
How about this "International Fund for Animal Welfare"? Instead of bitching real loud, how about you bid for the ivory, then tell the sellers that you will pick it up. Show up at the seller's door with law enforcement.
Oh, I see. That doesn't get you free advertisement for your fund raising efforts.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
The convention among people who might be interested in ivory is that objects more than 50 years old are OK. You would most likely be both legally and morally in the clear with an old piano and antique razors. I would guess that nobody has manufactured straight razors with ivory handles in the past 50 years, and celluloid keys for pianos have also prevailed in that time frame. The problem comes with people who lie about the age of the ivory they're selling. (Incidentally, for people who might be interested in the "look and feel" of ivory without the slaughter, I'd strongly suggest a look at "vegetable ivory," or tagua. It is a nut-kernel product that actually has the look, feel, grain, and strength of the real stuff. It can be worked, carved, and shaped just like the real thing, and it lasts just as long. It's entirely renewable, and its harvest and preparation provide employment for people in several economically distressed areas of the world. Any amateur carvers or makers of jewelry would do well to investigate its excellent properties.)
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
1. Profit!
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
It depends on the age. The pianos I had growing up were quite old and all had Ivory veneer. As far as I know, the actual key mechanism is always wood, with the veneer... the same is usually true with modern pianos - wooden key with plastic veneer.
Even ignoring the fact that someone killed an elephant to get the ivory for the keys, I've always hated playing on ivory keys as they would break more easily than plastic.