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A Veteran GM's First Impressions of D&D 4th Edition

Posted by timothy on from the oooh-glossy dept.

Martin Ralya writes "I spent several hours with the three core D&D 4th Edition books on launch day, and wrote a detailed look at all of them based on my first impressions. Two big takeaways: Yes, the World of Warcraft comparisons are fair (and a good thing), and the way character powers work now will make the game more fun for everyone."

12 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. It is great by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yes, quite great. *gurps* Excuse me....

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    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    1. Re:It is great by oGMo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Two things I find funny about D&D 4E in comparison to GURPS 4e (my generally-preferred system). Remember when GURPS 4e came out? Everyone whined it was too expensive. Now D&D 4E is over $100 for the PHB/DMG/MM basic set (no pun intended), though of course you can find it online for cheaper. Yet no one seems to be complaining.

      On the upside, many of the things that GURPS 4e did right D&D 4E is also doing right. Much improved rules layout and general unification/simplification of "stupid things". I was very much not a fan of d20 3.x for this exact reason; the entire ruleset was vomited into the book with what seemed like little attention to organization. (Remember GURPS 3e sidebars?)

      That said, D&D 4E is very much still the quick hack'n'slash ruleset. Of course, it doesn't have to be, but it certainly doesn't have the attention to character personality advantages/disadvantages and all the non-combat skills that GURPS does. But then not much else does, and that's why we all love GURPS, isn't it. ;-)

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      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage

    2. Re:It is great by NuclearDog · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well:

      From this graph, the price of corn in 2004 peaked at approximately $3.35/bushel. The latest price of corn on there was approximately $4.30/bushel.

      From this site, the approximate weight of one bushel of corn is 56 lbs. According to Google that's 25'401 grams.

      If you cut all of the kernels off of the cob, boil them, and eat them without salt or any other seasonings, according to this chart, it will contain 66 calories per 82 grams.

      This means one bushel contains approximately 20'445 calories.

      According to this list, a 190 lb person running at 10mph (6 minute mile) will burn 1380 calories.

      So, you'll get 14.8 miles worth of calories out of one bushel of corn.

      So, in 2004 you'd be paying $0.226 per mile. Today you'd be paying $0.291 per mile. That's an increase of about 22.3%.

      An increase from $75 (GURPS 4e, 2004) to $105 (D&D 4e, 2008) is 28.6%.

      So given the questionable sources, estimations, etc I've used, I'd say that those numbers are close enough to conclude that the cost of the books has approximately followed the market.

      ND

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  2. It's only fun for me when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I put on my robe and my wizard hat.

    1. Re:It's only fun for me when by bloodninja · · Score: 5, Funny

      I put on my robe and my wizard hat. I steal your soul and cast Lightning Level 1,000,000. Your body explodes into a fine bloody mist, because you are only a AC impostor.

      Now *I* put on my robe and wizard hat.
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      Lock the wife and the dog in the boot of the car.
      Return one hour later.
      Who's happy to see you?
  3. An everyone game? by Zekeums · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems a bit funny to me that they are making it WoW-like in the "everybody can play easily" quality. I never liked that about WoW, because it just meant that a bunch of idiots could sign on and play, but in a tabletop game it will just make it easier for friends who thought it was too complicated before to get into it. Hearing this about it makes me happy.

  4. Wait until you've played it by Andtalath · · Score: 5, Informative

    Reading it only says so much. I had my first session today, and I must say that I found it less MMO:ish once you actually started playing it. Sure, some fundamental rules use the same ideas, but, that is in no way an issue when actually playing. I must say I liked DM:ing it, but it will be a while before I learn the mechanics, they are far less intuitive past a certain level since every power is an exception to the very bare core. So, a lot more "studying" is necessary than previous editions if you want to learn it all, but there is a shorter span until you can start playing your first game and understand what you are doing.

    1. Re:Wait until you've played it by Ripit · · Score: 5, Funny

      Looks like Englishv6.

  5. Just went to a local Game Day event... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...and had a blast. My brother and I have never played D&D, but I have been listening to podcasts and reading about it for the past few months and definitely wanted to give it a try with someone who knew what they were doing.

    We had a great time, especially when we essentially tied down an Ice Dragon and our main Fighter intimidated the Dragon into giving up (even without knowing the Dragon's language!) and we won the encounter without even killing it! It was so much more fun than raiding Onyxia, especially given all the freedom you have in D&D. I bought a book and can't wait to rope all my friends into it.

  6. Re:Is the title correct? by Alotau · · Score: 5, Informative

    Should it be DM, or do I not know what GM stands for... "GM" is a "Game Master." So a DM is a GM for D&D. GM is just more generic and doesn't have to be associated with D&D or even this genre of role-playing games.
  7. Something is fishy about this "review" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The 4e books have about 1/4 the content of previous edition books. They have large type, a lot of whitespace, and hell of a lot of repetition and iteration through trivial variants.

    Every new power or creature has an embarassingly bad "Magic: The Gathering" style name, which often has only a slight connection to the game mechanic it represents. Many of the powers have rules that only make sense in combat, and the ones that are designed to be done outside of combat are slapdash.

    It's all designed around "game balance" (i.e. balance as a competitive tactics boardgame, not as a cooperative role-playing game) to the point of continual absurdity.

    I could go on and on, but there is a lot to hate in 4e, and anyone who gives it an entirely uncritical review is either taking money or ignorant of previous editions.

  8. Re:Propoganda much? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 5, Informative

    - No strategy. Instead of having to rest and pray (or study) to gain spells back, they have the equivalent of "cooldown" (which I can forgive in an MMO, but makes no real-world sense). Basically your players can use their best spells every fight. No strategy, no need for lower-level spells at all. Why do they even exist once you pass 5th level (or whatever level it is you get fireball now)?
    You haven't even read the books at ALL, have you? There's 3 kinds of powers - at will (you can do them whenever, all day, usually low damage/low utility), 1/encounter (you can use these once per battle, and you have to take a 5 minute rest before you can use them again), and 1/day (you have to sleep for 6 hours to get them back). There's also a good deal of variety in the abilities, and yes, there is reason to use Magic Missile after you get Fireball. The system works great, and there is a HUGE amount of strategy involved, it's just very different from 3.5's "everything is x/day". And, come on, did you just try to argue that having SPELLS work on a cooldown system makes no REAL WORLD sense?

    I really don't feel like refuting the rest of your post, but mods, note that this guy has never seen the books himself, has never played with the system, and is knee-jerking at it without knowing what he's talking about.