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Boy Scouts Ask Open Source Community For Help
Lucas123 writes "The Boy Scouts of America are looking to the open-source community for help in building software to use for fundraisers, special events, and other functions, for their more than 121,000 local scout troops. Some open source advocates, who are former Boy Scouts, support the idea, despite a few reservations. According to the article, there are no plans for a scout merit badge in open source — but there has been a merit badge in computers since 1967, 'and it is possible that if the program is successful, it could eventually be used by IT-savvy scouts themselves.'"
Absolutely, love to help 'em.
Just as soon as they lose the institutionalized homophobia and pandering to mythology.
Other than that, I think they're entirely deserving of assistance. And yes, I was a boy scout. :)
Of course, I recognize that as a private organization, they have the right to such stone age views; however, I also have the right to hold them accountable for them.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
The Boy Scouts still discriminate against atheists and homosexuals. They're also a huge organization with no shortage of cash, and they're infiltrated by ultra-conservative Mormons and other Jesus freaks. They're just looking for something for free. Fuck 'em.
I have told scouts at fundraisers that the reason I don't support the Boy Scouts is because of their position on atheism and homosexuality.
Interestingly, the Girl Scouts' official position is that they have no official position on homosexuality.
Penn and Teller's show on the Boy Scouts was fascinating - turns out a huge chunk of the Boy Scouts is financed by the Mormon church.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
Tell them to go shove it and write their own God-fearing straight-male software.
More Twoson than Cupertino
I'm a strong Libertarian, a professional Linux programmer, _and_ a Sunday School teacher. My church (Unity) is Christian, while openly accepting gays and atheists / agnostics.
/.'ers seem to think is the only thing possible.
Our old pastor was an Eagle Scout, but wouldn't allow us to sponsor a Scout Troop because of the homosexuality issue. Our new pastor is fine with us sponsoring a Scout Troop.
I am 100% in agreement with the sentiments of all the other posts in this article, namely disgust with the BSA's infiltration by Mormons, pandering to the MPAA/RIAA, and prejudice against gays and non-Christians.
Why then, you may be asking, would I still spend time and effort sponsoring a Scout Troop? Because it's the BEST WE'VE GOT. Go ahead, show me a comparably mature organization offering the structure young men need with free access to all of the campground and other facilities.
There are students in my Sunday School class that we've lost to juvie or worse, tragedies that could have been avoided if there was something equivalent to a Scout Troop available. Even if we ran into problems with forming an official BSA Troop, we were going to create the non-BSA equivalent (Unity Scouts or something).
Lastly, you can be damned certain we'll be teaching the kids good principles, not the gay-bashing or whatever most
I say the FOSS movement should step up to bat on this one to show we're not petty, angry little children like most of the comments I've seen so far.
-AC
(Note: I'm only posting as AC to protect the identities of Church members and children.)
And this is why I will not support them.
Simply put, the group got taken over by the Kentucky Fried Christians, and ever since that time, I've been rather ashamed of the organization. There's also the major problem of the fear of litigation getting in the way of the things that were fun/educational/awesome/whatever. We'll not mention the asinine paperwork that just doesn't need to exist.
That said, I do still keep my Eagle Scout card in my wallet after all these years.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
My experience matches yours. I went all the way from Cub Scouts to earning Eagle while being an atheist. I was never made to feel out of place. It all depends on the local organization. I was lucky enough to be in a troop led by some pretty open-minded people.
My younger son is in Cub Scouts right now; in fact, I'm his den leader. His pack is a little more uptight than mine was as a kid, but that's mostly because of one leader who wants things run absolutely by the book. None of the rest of the leaders particularly care. I don't even think the uptight leader really cares, personally, except that's what the book says.
The way I got through Scouts, and the way that I'm working with my son to get through it, is to stretch the definition of "faith in god" to something a bit more naturalistic. Appreciation of the world around us, belief in a moral center of "good" versus "bad", respect for others. I'm comfortable that we're following the spirit of the faith requirements, even if it's not exactly what the BSA had in mind.
So yeah, I wish the Boy Scouts weren't so anti-atheist and homophobic. Despite that, I still think it's a good program for kids, provided you can find a pack or troop that doesn't obsess over such matters.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
I think you missed the part where atheists had no problems to speak of in the Boy Scouts until about ten years ago. I'm an atheist, and I was in the Boy Scouts. So were many of my friends, also atheists and in the Scouts.
Being an Eagle Scout affords you certain advantages in getting into federal military academies, looks good on a resume, etc. People cite their scouting days in college applications to beneficial effect all the time.
Then the Mormon Church buys them out. Suddenly the organization doesn't just have religious overtones, it kicks kids out that have done nothing wrong aside from having different beliefs. Kids that bully others are talked to, put on probation, or otherwise given a second chance. An atheist kid is told to either lie about something so fundamental to each of us (yeah, great morals there) or get kicked out.
Let's be clear. We're not talking about someone trying to make the other kids into atheists. We're not talking about kids calling press conferences to get the BSA to change the scout oath. We're talking about an organization that changed under our feet and suddenly became a hostile entity.
Imagine you were black, had taken part in an organization that had white supremacy overtones, but everyone laughed it off, treated it like an unfortunate legacy. Imagine all of your experiences and your friendships were a shining moment in your life. Imagine you had taken part in fundraisers and paid dues to this organization.
Now imagine that one day the organization calls you a nigger and forces you out. Imagine the effort and time and money given to this organization, the fruits of your labor, are now forbidden to you and everyone like you.
Now imagine that someone on a random internet message board proclaims that the organization has that right since they always proclaimed white supremacy, but since they've also always received federal funds, your tax dollars continue to help fund the organization that's turned its back on you and everyone else like you.
But I guess that's just belly-aching, isn't it?
You can't hide being black, but you can lie about being an atheist. For a 10 year-old, to stand up and be honest about your beliefs is true strength, no matter what that faith may be. It's far easier to just go with the flow and "blend in."
For the organization, however, the moral issues are the same. Forbidding access to some for who they are rather than what they do is clearly morally reprehensible.
- I don't need to go outside, my CRT tan'll do me just fine.
AC for a few reasons, sorry.
Shocked by the "I was an atheist and it was fine" comments.
I worked all the way through to Eagle Scout. Busted my butt, volunteered a lot, etc. Still try to be an honest, trustworthy guy, and heck, maybe that keeps me from advancing in the selfish-filled Corporate World, but that's a topic for another rant.
I got to my review committee and was *grilled* about my religious convictions, and this in a troop that wasn't particularly religious. My long-stated (and harrassment-inducing) atheism was suddenly a Very Big Problem. My closest advisor finally said something along the lines of, "ok, you don't believe a lot of specifics for any particular sect, but you believe in a higher power God, right? **_RIGHT_**?" with a "yes or you're done, even after a long, committed scouting life" look.
I mumbled some vague affirmatives sheepishly and all seemed satisfied. The topic changed.
I have never felt right about that. Don't think about it often, but now that I have, some ~15-20 years later, it still upsets me. I have always wanted to send in my badges and resign publicly as I wish I had done so on the spot. Maybe I'll go write a letter tonight.
Then again, don't get me started on the ignorant homophobia. This straight, white guy took a *lot* of sh!t for fighting against that. Really always seemed like a lot of closeted/self-denying/ignorant rednecks were leading that hate brigade. But the camping, knives, guns, etc were worth it! (at the time... I guess...)