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Three ISPs Agree To Block Child Porn

Goobergunch and other readers sent in word that Sprint, Time Warner, and Verizon have agreed to block websites and newsgroups containing child pornography. The deal, brokered by New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo, occurred after Cuomo's office threatened the ISPs with fraud charges. It's of some concern that the blacklist of sites and newsgroups is to be maintained by the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, an NGO with no legal requirement for transparency. Here are two further cautions, the first from Lauren Weinstein: "Of broader interest perhaps is how much time will pass before 'other entities' demand that ISPs (attempt to) block access to other materials that one group or another feels subscribers should not be permitted to see or hear." And from Techdirt: "[T]he state of Pennsylvania tried to do pretty much the same thing, back in 2002, but focused on actually passing a law ... And, of course, a federal court tossed out the law as unconstitutional. The goal is certainly noble. Getting rid of child porn would be great — but having ISPs block access to an assigned list isn't going to do a damn thing towards that goal."

11 of 572 comments (clear)

  1. Block for all? by gmuslera · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about providing *optional* proxies that does that filtering to their users?

    1. Re:Block for all? by Gavagai80 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And then arresting everyone who chooses not to use the filter, on charges of seeking child pornography?

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      This space intentionally left blank
    2. Re:Block for all? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think it's more about "How can we get this Godless Hippie Crap off the InterTubes. Oh yeah, I know! Let's use a Wedge Strategy!". Then they look for the widest crack in libertarian's armour (which happens to be visible from space), namely their utter unwillingness to stand up for the legal rights of pedophiles.

      If people won't defend the rights of the most wretched and most wicked, then they deserve no rights themselves. And that's what they're getting; at civil protests, at TSA checkpoints and now online.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  2. Are you sure? by HappySmileMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Yes, truecrypt.org DOES contain child porn, so does wikileaks.org"
    "Do you have proof?"
    "We don't need it, it's on the list, now move along, nothing to see here."

    1. Re:Are you sure? by PontifexPrimus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Yes, truecrypt.org DOES contain child porn, so does wikileaks.org"
      "Do you have proof?"
      "Why are you asking? You must be looking for child porn! STONE HIM!" There, fixed it for you. Even better:
      "Yes, truecrypt.org DOES contain child porn, so does wikileaks.org"
      "Do you have proof?"
      "Of course! Why don't you visit the sites and check yourself? Oh, sorry. Guess you can't. But for trying to access a blacklisted site you'll now be on permanent watch as a potential pedophile."
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      -- Language is a virus from outer space.
    2. Re:Are you sure? by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Oh, you're trying to use a proxy service--must be trying to access child porn. So we'll block those too.

      Oh, you're accessing adult porn sites. Well, some of them might contain child porn. So we'll block those too.

      Accessing a site that's anti-Center for Missing and Exploited Children? Must be trying to get around our system. Well, guess what buddy, we blocked that too.

      Oh, Mr. ISP, now you're claiming you can't block sites after you just proved you could? Well, guess who's getting sued for not blocking the Pirate Bay!

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  3. False positives, misleading true positives by Rinisari · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What happens when Mom sends via email or an online album pictures of Baby's first bath to Grandma, and Grandma's ISP's software classifies the email or album as child porn? Does Grandma get a visit from the FBI/CIA/DEA/NSA/IRS/TSA/DHS in the form of a raid looking for more child porn? News gets out that Grandma was investigated for child porn and her reputation is demolished, even if some people know that it was a case of mistaken intent/identity.

    Child porn is a terrible thing, but it's virtually impossible to classify something as child porn unless someone has manually classified an known image and corresponding hash as child porn.

    There's also the issue of determining ages of the children in the picture if they're not obviously too young. Who took the pictures? Was it taken by a 15-year-old girl's 17-year-old boyfriend, or did she herself take it for him? This is legal in some states/countries, but a felony in others.

    I don't want to get into an argument about these specific cases, but the possible cases are simply too wide and a single government authority cannot effectively press its morals onto its people. Romeo and Juliet will deviate from the norm.

    The Chris Hansen approach works much better because it shows provable evidence of intent/motive and catches them in the act, perhaps even literally with their pants down.

    1. Re:False positives, misleading true positives by Izabael_DaJinn · · Score: 5, Insightful
      The Chris Hansen approach rubs me the wrong way as well--too commercial, too manipulative, but a much better idea than what is proposed here.

      Also men are biologically inclined to find girls who have gone through puberty attractive.

      When I was 15 I wanted to have sex with older men...including as old as 21-22 (and even much older on on occasion). They wanted to have sex with me. So what? I hardly think they are pedophiles.

      Someone needs to stop lumping all "child porn" into one category. A 20 year old man having sex with a consenting 15 year old is not nearly the same as a 40 year old having sex with an 8 year old.

      This reminds me what they do with the war on drugs. Lump all drugs into one category, whether it be marijuana or crack cocaine.

      --
      Careful What You Wish For....
  4. Re:slippery slope by Ephemeriis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I can't stand the kiddie pr0n,this simply won't work. it has been tried in the past in other countries and it always ends up getting legit websites along with the bad ones.But that is my 02c,YMMV You've got probably three major problems with any kind of list like this...

    1) Accidentally listed innocent sites. Some place like Whore Presents getting listed as pornography when it isn't.

    2) Intentionally mis-listed sites. Somebody will claim that The Pirate Bay has child pornography on it (which it may) just to keep people from downloading cracked copies of Spore.

    3) They're easy enough to bypass. There are plenty of free proxies out there that'll happily slap some advertising on your screen and then serve up whatever page your ISP doesn't want you to see. Or you could tunnel your traffic elsewhere to avoid the filter lists

    These blocklists will be enough to stop some people from accidentally stumbling upon child porn... Maybe stop some very casual attempts to intentionally view child porn... But nothing more. They won't actually put a dent in folks who are genuinely trafficking in real, illegal child pornography. They're already well aware of what they're doing, and that it's illegal, and they're already going to some effort to find the material. Making them use an additional proxy or VPN isn't going to accomplish a whole lot.

    --
    "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
  5. Re:Child porn is NOT the problem by Applekid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How do we deal with [child produced pornography]? At the risk of being called a pedophile myself:
    We don't.

    To me at least, the fact that the tools to produce pornography are falling into the hands of children and it's being used as such is evidence that we need to completely rethink childhood, adolesence, sexuality, and age of consent. I know parents will be horrified at the thought of their precious little fuzzy-lumpkins actually being as curious as they were when they were that age, but it's true.
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    More Twoson than Cupertino
  6. Re:Child porn is NOT the problem by GooberToo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you can cut off the buyer from the seller, you can make a dent in the problem.

    Same broken logic that fuels the anti-drug war. Same broken logic that fuels police to arrest johns and prostitutes. It does not curb it; rather it only makes it move and change tactics while wasting huge amounts of money and man power.

    Find me one sane person that can justify the war on drugs and I'll agree you have a leg to stand on.