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Digital TV Foreshadows Erosion of Net Rights

snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Tom Yager offers insight on how digital TV is rapidly heading toward the kind of lockdown that entertainment and broadcast lobbies desire for the Internet. Standards such as HDMI and HDCP are acting in concert to strip your equipment of its functionality, displaying 'incompatibility' messages when plugged into older HDMI-enabled devices, shutting down analog outputs when active, and requiring balky handshake credentials that force many consumers to reboot their TVs to recover permission to watch them. Even broadcast flagging, which has been overturned by the Court of Appeals, is still on the de-facto table, as the entertainment lobby retains the power to bully technology companies into baking broadcast flagging into their wares. Sure, digital TV has far fewer points of origin than the Internet and is therefore easier to control, but, as Yager writes, 'Internet rights restrictions come through your telecommunications equipment' — and it is likely through that equipment that the entertainment and broadcast lobbies will chip away at your rights on the Web."

31 of 312 comments (clear)

  1. I wonder. by Aussenseiter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How exactly can one foreshadow something that's already happening?

    1. Re:I wonder. by martinw89 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I know the telecoms are limiting bandwidth and dropping niche services, but at least I haven't had any garbled junk land in my browser yet with the message "Upgrade your service to see this website".

    2. Re:I wonder. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Worse yet, "you can't watch this webpage from your country", and not because the webpage doesn't want you to.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:I wonder. by rts008 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Tor is your friend
      It may be our only option-onion routers to do what we want.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    4. Re:I wonder. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Only until the studios notice the insane traffic going to certain nodes, shut them off, then sue the providers of exit nodes for providing a service that allows the circumvention of DRM. I'm fairly sure you can bend the DMCA that way, too, the law seems pretty flexible.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:I wonder. by keeboo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Remember that BBC is a non-profit entity funded by TV tax.
      The international bandwidth costs come from those taxes, so it wouldn't be fair to the brits.

      It would be nice if they made ad-sponsored videos, though. BBC news site already works that way, international users have advertisements rendered in the pages.

    6. Re:I wonder. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I doubt it's the bandwidth that worries them. They just want to retain the ability to sell the rights to the show abroad. And they did, we got Dr. Who now (woohoo).

      Well, it's in German, but it's Dr. Who! More or less...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:I wonder. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm pretty sure they got very upset and maybe even outright hostile to you when you told them that they can't use their tools as intended and that the music they bought doesn't work anymore. I'm sure you had to deal with a lot of verbal abuse because of it all.

      But what happened then? Did they sue? Did they cancel their contract? Or, what I'd rather believe, did they leave it at that?

      What's the net effect? So they buy stuff, it doesn't work, it pisses them off, they yell at the call center agent... how does that reduce the profit of the company? Because that's all that matters.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by giorgist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No problem ...

    MS tried to lock down Windows and Office.
    result ... free alternatives

    The Movie industry is loosing viewers in droves to the internet. If the experiance is substandard to Internet ... people will just not bother

    1. Re:The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Funny

      The Movie industry is loosing viewers in droves to the internet. If the experiance is substandard to Internet ... people will just not bother Tough call ... I've seen my share of movies with laughably bad subtitles, but something tells me I'll have to keep coming back to the internet to get my hit of really bad spelling and grammar.
      --
      If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
    2. Re:The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Great. Now give me a free ISP (as in freedom, not as in doesn't cost) and we're set.

      You are aware that we're heading towards (or already arrived at) a de facto monopoly for ISPs, yes? And there is heavy lobbying to keep it that way.

      To create an ISP, it takes more than a few routers and some fat pipe to some uplink. It's the infamous last mile. And for that last mile, you need the cooperation of a lot of governmental agencies, whether you want to build that last line through a wire above the ground or below, even if you want to use wireless technology, you need some sort of permit. If you don't already, just wait and see.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by ewhac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      MS tried to lock down Windows and Office.
      result ... free alternatives

      Do you have any idea how much capital investment it takes to develop an "average" consumer electronic device? A modern semiconductor chip? A "simple" interface like IEEE-1394, or DVI, or HDMI, or DisplayPort?

      Any schmoe can download GCC and start writing commercial-grade software. But free alternatives for silicon design and Open Access silicon fabs don't (meaningfully) exist.

      It just kills me every time I see HDCP as a marketing bullet point, and not on the defects list where it belongs...

      Schwab

    4. Re:The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      To create an ISP, it takes more than a few routers and some fat pipe to some uplink. It's the infamous last mile. And for that last mile, you need the cooperation of a lot of governmental agencies

      You also need a willing backbone provider, all of which would also be your competitors. so you'll end up being a vassal of one of them.

      Even if you were able to negotiate peerage with other ISPs, most of them are going to be vassals of the big ones.

      Much as I would love to see a huge geek co-op raise a new net (Internet III?), I just don't think it is possible anymore.

      --
      Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
    5. Re:The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by mcrbids · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Didn't I read somewhere that television viewing was actually DROPPING? Come up with crappy shows and reruns and wonder why viewership is declining? Perhaps the writer's strike had something to do with it?

      Perhaps it's because of Youtube and Vimeo? In my household, we probably average about as much YT as TV, even with a dish DVR. We don't watch commercials much at all, and what network a show is on is, for us, irrelevant because it records the shows we want, not the stations we like.

      Anybody who'd say that things haven't radically changed is simply oblivious to the fact that they have. Business is no longer usual!

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    6. Re:The more you squeeze, the more they slip though by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I read in New Scientist a couple of years ago that there was a system in used in India which used a similar system to UUCP but with 802.11g connections, so that each computer on the network would maintain a database of what were effectively bang paths to as many other computers as possible. This meant that any computer could transmit messages to any other computer.

      This sort of system would allow very large areas to be connected cheaply, but would have low bandwidth and high latency.

      IIRC, domain names were looked up and connections could be made as though you were using an ordinary Ethernet connection, but I no longer remember all the details.

  3. Not exactly by Mensa+Babe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That scary "lockdown" that you are alarming about is not what those "entertainment and broadcast lobbies" desire for the Internet. This is what they desire for their TV on the Internet, for crying out loud. This is a subtle yet important difference because contrary to what you are implying here the Internet as we know it is not going to change. So don't worry, you'll still be able to waste time on Slashdot all day long. That having been said, I personally consider the television itself to be an utter waste of time (or a "lockdown" if you will) but do I post messages on Slashdot about it? No. I just don't watch it. Viola. Problem solved. You should try it sometimes and you'll see that there is no need to scare people that they will be somehow "locked down" by having a choice to watch the TV on some additional medium.

    --
    Karma: Positive (probably because of superiour intellect)
    1. Re:Not exactly by Gewalt · · Score: 5, Funny

      That having been said, I personally consider the television itself to be an utter waste of time (or a "lockdown" if you will) but do I post messages on Slashdot about it? Uh, ya. Apparently you do.
      --
      Modding Trolls +1 inciteful since 1999
  4. Re:Closing loopholes != erosion of rights by Aussenseiter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    New tech is able to prevent you doing this. And as the cycle goes, newer tech is able to circumvent the prevention method. Analogy alert: After locks were invented, someone invented lockpicks.
  5. copy protection is costing you money by timmarhy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    In our tv's and dvd recorders we are being forced to pay for the copyprotection schemes operating in them. i had a $6000 tv set drop a hdmi port due to a faulty hdcp signal. why the hell should i even be forced into having hdcp to start with? we need to fight back in the only way possible - with our wallets.

    and the insane part about it all, is that it's not stopping piracy. it NEVER will. whole seasons are still on bittorrent in HD.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  6. Television not behaving? by jeiler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Try turning it off.

    I'm not kidding, nor am I trolling. Until and unless watching television becomes mandatory, if you're not participating in the system, THE SYSTEM CANNOT CONTROL YOU.

    --

    If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

    Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

    1. Re:Television not behaving? by robo_mojo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Turn it off because of the advertisements, too.

      Back in 2003 (when I stopped watching television) a typical 60 minutes of television contained 21 minutes of advertisement and 39 minutes of program. I thought, "Why the hell am I actually paying for this mess."

      I can only imagine that it has gotten worse. Anyone have some numbers?

    2. Re:Television not behaving? by jeiler · · Score: 4, Informative

      I can only imagine that it has gotten worse. Anyone have some numbers? IIRC, a 30-minute broadcast typically contains 22 minutes of programming, 6 minutes of national advertising, and 2 minutes of local ads.
      --

      If you haven't been down-modded lately, you aren't trying.

      Sacred cows make the best hamburger.

  7. eliminating Fair Use is an erosion of rights by schwaang · · Score: 3, Informative

    You never had those "rights". Old technology just did not prevent you from recording/copying shows, music etc. That did not mean that you were allowed to do it, but many turned a blind eye to infringements.

    The US Supreme Court disagreed with you when it decided in the Betamax ruling that

    the making of individual copies of complete television shows for purposes of time-shifting does not constitute copyright infringement, but is fair use.
  8. Re:Closing loopholes != erosion of rights by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Your point is partly true; but the part that isn't true is important.

    It is the case that a fair few of the things that HDCP and friends are designed to prevent were never legal to begin with. Not all, however, are. If nothing else, building DRM that understands fair use exceptions is going to have to wait for the introduction of AI competent enough to interpret case law on the fly. Depending on the DRM and the country in question, various sorts of timeshifting and format shifting are also likely to be legal but blocked.

    The problem with these DRM systems is that they, in effect, allow the companies that control them to make law just by setting a few DRM flags(under the DMCA and similar, DRM basically has force of law because you can't legally break it, and in other instances, joe user will de facto be bound by it). That is the really disturbing bit. If DRM were simply technology catching up with law, that would be one thing(still not a good thing, I would argue; but that is outside the scope of this particular argument); but DRM is something much, much, more than that. It is the expansion of technology to eclipse, and to write, law without even the pretense of legislative process.

  9. Re:Internet TV by paroneayea · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately, Apple TV is still DRM-laden, and if the internet was to go the direction that Apple TV is, it's going to become a pretty awful place to be IMO.

    Fortunately there's a project that looks like it's going to become the Firefox of internet tv... and it's called Miro. It's based on simple, common and open standards... RSS, bittorrent, and just plain old DRM-free codecs. It's not pretending to be something magical, and indeed, it shouldn't.

    It's already pretty enjoyable to use, but I've been doing some volunteering on the project. Trust me, the next iteration is going to be really slick.

    --
    http://mediagoblin.org/
  10. Re:Closing loopholes != erosion of rights by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Treating your customer as your enemy and assuming by definition that everyone buying your movie will try to create copies to spread them is also not really right in my books.

    The main reason why there is a "market" at all for those copies is simply that, unless you happen to sit right in the country where the movie is shown first, you are forced to wait. Allow me to give you an example. I like Dr. House. I watch it religiously. In my country, we're now in the middle of season 3. Now, that's about 2 seasons behind. I enjoy the show, and I wouldn't mind at all to watch it in English. Actually, I'd prefer it. But I neither get the option to see it in English, nor do I get the chance to see the latest episodes. I can't even go and buy the DVDs for seasons 1-3, and I won't be able to buy season 4 when it comes out in August, because no local distributor has been chosen yet, and of course, our networks showing it here have contracts that prevent such things from happening.

    Can you see why the incentive to fire up some P2P client and simply download the other two seasons is pretty high?

    And it's the same for pretty much everything else. For the US, it works in reverse with Anime, which also suffer (interesting enough) from insanely crappy translations when done by some studio, yet fansubs happen to be nearly flawless and true to the original.

    It's not that people wouldn't want to pay artists for their work. The problem is that you often don't even get the choice to do just that!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Re:"fair use" != "right" by Chrontius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Okay, so they encrypt their stream.
    I break it - not "bloody copyright infringement" yet.
    On the other hand, what I just did violates a completely separate bought-and-paid-for law.

  12. Re:Closing loopholes != erosion of rights by martin-boundary · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Technology and knowledge does not stand still. Look back at the shows produced in the 60s or 80s. We laugh at their clumsy special effects now, but they took money, effort and skill to produce. Nowadays, a guy in a basement can do better for free just for the hell of it. In ten years, the equivalent of BSG will cost a fraction of what it costs now even for the professionals.

    If you take away the special effects, BSG is just a story. People have been writing stories for centuries. It takes exactly one person, some paper, and a pen. That's not expensive, and many people write good stories for free.

    The suggestion that artistic and entertainment creations would continue to be made in the same volume or quality with the creators being given nothing in return is utterly ridiculous.
    If the market prefers cheaper or free entertainment, it is up to the entertainment industry to improve their quality, reduce volume, or go out of business. It is not up to the customers to pay more than they want to, when they are already happy with alternatives. Horse buggies went out of business when cars became popular.

    [..] but to go to the other extreme and suggest that everything should be free is just wrong.
    Once again I agree, yet point out the reverse: to suggest that good content doesn't get produced if people don't expect to be paid is just wrong.
  13. Re:Closing loopholes != erosion of rights by falconwolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After locks were invented, someone invented lockpicks.

    But the existence of that technology does not excuse its use.

    Sure it does, actually the invention of the lock necessitated the need for lockpicks. I don't know if it's happened to you but I ran into a number of people who got locked out of their car or home. Years ago I shared a home with others. I smoke but I go outside to smoke at home and even though I was sitting on a bench in front of the door with a window next to it from where a person could clearly see me, one of the others living there was paranoid about an unlocked door and he kept locking it on me. Now what if I didn't have my keys, I started carrying them with me just because of him, and he locked the door then left? Or what about a car, about the same tyme I was locked out I had a lady ask me if she could use my cellphone to call the police, she had left the keys in the ignition with the engine running and left a baby in the vehicle but locked the door.

    Falcon
  14. bandwidth vs. throughput by xalorous · · Score: 3, Informative

    Stop confusing bandwidth with throughput.

    Your connection is sold to you with a "bandwidth". Say an cable connection with 6 Mbps speed. That is a cap. And not even guaranteed. With US providers you'll probably get somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 Mbps, depending how many others are on the wire with you and how many and how clean the connections between you and the ISP.

    Your connection may or may not have a throughput limit. Unlimited throughput means the number of bytes you can download is not limited. In some places, there are limitations. Typically the ISP's that limit throughput also offer the possiblilty to purchase more.

    --
    TANSTAAFL GIGO Acronyms to live by!
  15. So:True, I wonder, what did we expect? by OldHawk777 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Capitalism, "Open" (as in FREEDOM) market competition, sound economic policy and laws....

    Damn fools, that shit died years ago, get over it and start supporting our New American Ways of "Corporate-Welfare" socialism, Institutional Privatization of Personal Intellectual Property (IP-PIP), Government Bailout Protection (GBP) and Special Tax Incentives (STI) to support amoral Corporatist, Politician, and Clergy executive pay and privileges.

    There is a new and better class of US Citizens representing their mantra "Separate, but equal" as the New America promise.

    --
    Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?