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Microsoft Spokesman Says ODF "Clearly Won" Standard War

Elektroschock writes "At a Red Hat retrospective panel on the ODF vs. OOXML struggle panel, a Microsoft representative, Stuart McKee, admitted that ODF had 'clearly won.' The Redmond company is going to add native support of ODF 1.1 with its Office 2007 service pack 2. Its yet unpublished format ISO OOXML will not be supported before the release of the next Office generation. Whether or not OOXML ever gets published is an open question after four national bodies appealed the ISO decision."

18 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sadly, no, this is not the end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft. I guarantee that ODF will not be the default format and that Microsoft's implementation of ODF will clearly be some variation of 'embrace, extend, extinguish,' just like everything else they do.

    Still, it feels good to hear a Microsoft employee admit that OOXML lost.

    1. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it doesn't mean that Microsoft will make ODF the default format. It does mean, however, that I could send an Office 2007 user an ODF document that I made with OpenOffice.org and they would be able to open it. They, in turn, could save their file as ODF and send it over to me if I ask for all documents to be sent in ODF format. This represents a serious hole in the "must send everything DOC to ensure compatibility"* lock-in.

      * Yes, I know that DOC had troubles across Office versions, but still sending DOC was your best bet if you wanted the party at the other end to be able to open and edit the document you were sending.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, it doesn't mean that Microsoft will make ODF the default format. It does mean, however, that I could send an Office 2007 user an ODF document that I made with OpenOffice.org and they would be able to open it.

      And render correctly, just like if you created a W3C-compliant HTML 4 document with a W3C-compliant CSS style sheet that displays correctly in every other browser other than IE, right?

    3. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by The+Warlock · · Score: 5, Informative

      http://www.betanews.com/article/Next_Office_2007_service_pack_will_include_ODF_PDF_support_options/1211343807

      There will be an option in both the installer and options menu to choose ODF as the default format, if you want.

      --
      I've upped my standards, so up yours.
    4. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by Vellmont · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Yes, I know that DOC had troubles across Office versions, but still sending DOC was your best bet if you wanted the party at the other end to be able to open and edit the document you were sending.

      Your statement, taken as a whole is correct. I just don't believe the last part "and edit the document you were sending" comes up very often. I can't think of one time I've been sent a document that someone wanted me to edit during the whole 18 years I've had internet access. 99.99% of the time I get documents someone wants me to review, but not edit in any way. In those cases I'd much rather get a PDF.

      If it's a collaborative editing situation, I'd rather use something like Google docs (and have).

      The bigger deal for a single document format is really just archival purposes. I want to be able to save a document today, and open the same document in 10 years with totally different software, on a completely different OS and computer. You're not really even guaranteed of doing that TODAY with .doc.

      --
      AccountKiller
    5. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by Locklin · · Score: 5, Funny

      And we know Office will render/produce ODF just as well as IE 6 renders standards compliant HTML.

      The ODF version of this comment is best opened with Microsoft Office 2007 or higher.

      --
      "Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
    6. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by peragrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      your getting ahead of yourself. First it is Embrace.

      What is MSFT doing right now? Embracing ODF, next comes a slow extension of ODF to make it MSFT only.

      1) Embrace --- MSFT is doing this part now
      2) Extend -- wait about a year for this to start happening
      3) Extinguish --- OOXML rulez. in about 2010 or when the next version of Office Ships.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by lbgator · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...but I'd be amazed if you weren't at least an order of magnitude out. Yeah - it's probably more like 800%. Knock em if you want to, but give credit where it's due.
    8. Re:The end of vendor lock-in for Microsoft? by unjedai · · Score: 5, Funny

      Word format documents probably hold 80% of the world's knowledge.

      Funny - 80% of all statistics are made up on the fly. What a coincidence!
  2. In other news... by argent · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ice-capades grand opening in hell marred by dive-bombing pigs.

  3. Wait and See by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now we shall all have to wait and see if MS plays nice with ODF because they are scared of the EU, or if they try to extend and break the standard to prevent true interoperability, as they have done with HTML, CSS, etc. since being late to the Web standards game.

  4. In other news... by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Funny

    Porcine aviatrixes were spotted across the country.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  5. Re:That's It???! by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given the lengths they went to, first to fight the very notion of an open standard format, and then to push OOXML, it seems hard to believe that this is over.

    I'm as happy as anyone else if it is, but it's very unlike MS. To my knowledge, this has happened only once before, with HTML, and we're still paying for the fallout of that one.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  6. Re:That's It???! by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 5, Funny

    Two phrases come to mind:
    "The cake is a lie."
    "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

  7. I was in this session... by JustShootMe · · Score: 5, Informative

    And in fact asked the question "Is this just Microsoft doing the first stage of embrace, extend, extinguish?" I was not happy with his response. He floated the idea of merging the two standards, which really concerns me, and also seemed to acknowledge that there was going to be some extension.

    From the impression I got, we got thrown a bone, and ODF and OOXML are going to be merged in the next couple of years, and MS will have de facto control because OOXML allows for proprietary extensions.

    MS is not going to take this lying down.

    I did shake Stuart's hand afterwards, however. He deserves props for showing up and taking a little abuse, although I was not near as hard on him as I would have liked to be, just because other people also deserved a chance to ask questions.

    One thing that struck me is that one of the Singapore standards guys was there, and he was NOT happy. He was pretty pissed off that they could not provide even one reference implementation.

    But... like I said. Props for showing up, MS. Now you just have many years of monopolistic behavior to live down, and I'll never trust anything you say again.

    --
    For linux tips: http://www.linuxtipsblog.com
  8. ODF Compatibility test utility by mlwmohawk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We are in a very important phase. We (someone) needs to create an ODF compatibility test utility, like an HTML validator, that will test the compliance of an ODF file.

    It can be used to catch Microsoft's crap. Remember, a word processing document is unlike HTML. HTML is likely to be seen by a multitude of people where as a document is probably only going to be seen by a specifically targeted group. Microsoft will be able to add incompatibility and almost no one will be able to notice until they wish to open THEIR document with a non-microsoft word processor or spread sheet. At that point it will be too late.

    We also have to make sure that Microsoft's products render ODF compliant documents correctly when they are created by non microsoft applications.

    The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

    1. Re:ODF Compatibility test utility by ender_01 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You mean something like this?

  9. Re:That's It???! by Hordeking · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Beware of Greeks bearing gifts." Correction: "Beware of Geeks bearing .gifs"
    --
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