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New Pictures of White Knight Two and SpaceshipTwo
soldeed writes "Over at the Virgin Galactic press site, there are new pictures of both White Knight Two and SpaceShip 2 during construction for media use. After seeing them, I can't help but wonder; Gee, what's in the box?"
I don't see any dated newer than February.
As long as we depend on cigars with wings and chemical based propellants we will only inch our way along this journey. I had higher hopes for this crew.
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It's ceiling is actually 110 km, not 100 miles. And 110 km is way lower than where you need to put satellites if you want them to be at all stable in orbit for any long term use (ie more than a couple months).
After seeing them, I can't help but wonder; Gee, what's in the box?
It's the bomb that someone is senting up. After all, AYBABTU.
Is just a clamping weight. Used to hold pieces together while adhesives cure or to prevent warping. Normal technique used in composite construction.
See the other one at the other end of the wing box?
See all the other, smaller weights?
Now tell me - you really couldn't figure this out for yourself?
You need to get out more.
Senior NCO in the fight against entropy. I've seen things, man. Things no one should have to see.....
Agreed. I thought maybe these were newly published photos that had been held back from the public for a few months, but I've seen at least some of them before.
What's new here?
I've been lucky enough to see Military aircraft being put together, space ships, and big commercial craft.
By comparison, that place looks like a freaking disaster area.
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"I can't help but wonder; Gee, what's in the box?"
Well it is a box being delivered to a team of physicists, I guess they wont know for certain until they open it :)
A cat. We don't know if it's dead or alive.
A space port with a box laying around? Sounds like someone lost their parallel dimension. Quick, turn it inside out before they invade!
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
Those boxes are weight... About 15 years back I helped build a very ez (Rutan's design too, btw). Construction was 'composite' materials - a bit of a radical chance from the way folks traditional built aircraft. You cut a lot of foam and put fiberglass and resin on it. The real work was making the jigs to get the right camber on the wings. You had to put weight on stuff to make sure it warped at the correct angle. With some parts, you had to do large chunks in one laying (is that even the right word?) of resin since it makes a stronger bond.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Do you want to keep your space vacation or trade it for what is in the box?
God spoke to me.
The accepted definition of "space" is higher than 100km. So yes, it is space. If you dont like it...well tough shit.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not familiar with the naval traditions of every country out there. But the US and UK, at least, (And those two have about the strongest naval triditions out there.) have no particular problem naming new ships after ones that sank.
After the first aircraft carrier iteration of the USS Yorktown (CV-5) sank after the battle of Midway, we named a new one after her just five carriers later (CV-10), and we have a guided missile cruiser in commission by the name right now. Also, the USS Indianapolis was sunk quite famously and horrifically. But we have a 688 class submarine with the name now.
Sometimes, the best way to honor a fallen vessel, is to continue its tradition.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
However, referencing that same link, all other countries with a space program consider space to start at 100km or 62 miles, while the US uses 50 miles. I thought that was interesting anyway.
Well, given that Scaled Composites is one of the most experience builders of aircraft with composite materials I would expect that they know what they're doing.
It is kind of fun that it looks like they're building a spaceship in a big garage. Factories are not always what you think they will be. I used to work for a company that built mini-supercomputers. Our factory was surprisingly modest. I used to love that we would make the official stickers (you know, don't stick your fingers in here or you'll get electrocuted) with the laser printer and cut them out with scissors.
The problem isn't altitude, it's speed. The SpaceShipTwo will peak at 2600mph, which is in the same ballpark as the SR-71 but only 1/6th the velocity required to reach any sort of orbit.
It's still a neat craft, but it would need to fifty times as powerful to become a true spacecraft, capable or doing more than popping above the "space barrier" for a few minutes.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
As a 49 yo grandmother, c programmer and feminist, I find this offensive.
Oh, do you really? Just a few months ago, you told someone else to chill out when they were offended by a similar statement:
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You know what this means: Next Star Trek movie will have a new ship in the historical Enterprises display...
(Yeah, I know the name has been known for a long time, but just came across it now and couldn't resist.)
Cost estimates for things that have never been build are not reliable. Your $30 billion number seems . . . conservative. Seriously, this is a large, dynamic structure. They don't really know how they'd put it in place. They don't know how they would confine the ribbon, or how reliable that system would be. With so many unknowns, you're really just pulling numbers out of your ass. Moreover, the odds that it is actually build-able are not great. The odds of it staying up for any usable period of time are much worse.
I've seen a lot of molded plastic manufacturing facilities (mostly spa manufacturers or boat manufactures. . . or custom car parts). They all look just like this because they all do the same thing. They build plugs, then molds, then finished pieces. I don't know why anyone would expect this factory to be clean. They are always grinding and cutting and spraying. It's just not a clean process.
The important thing is they clean each piece before each step. It doesn't matter if some dust gets into the finished product, because it will be encapsulated in resin. As long as it's not too much, it won't have an appreciable effect. I know it's nice to think that it can be perfect and dust free, but it's just not possible.
1: Cut a hole in a box
2: Put your junk in that box
3: Make her open the box
For a start, SpaceShipTwo is simple a bigger version of an already tested craft, which was in development for longer than Ares I has. Second, Ares I is a much, much bigger vehicle. It will be able to heft 25t into orbit (not a pissy little suborbital trajectory) Hate to point this out, but Ares I is also just a bigger version of a current booster combined with a slightly improved old engine (all had been fully tested in LOADS of production). IOW, spacex AND NASA are doing the same thing.
The real difference is that the comparison is false since it is between a spacecraft in the lowest of orbits vs. a rocket that goes to at least leo.
But I would say that there is no reason to get snarky about it. Many of us who believe in NASA also believe in private enterprise. It is not one vs. the other. I will say that while I am not sold on ares I, I am a fan of the Ares V. We will need that kind of tonnage if we are really shooting for the moon (or mars) again. In addition, it will enable us to launch major sats across the solar system. Now, I just hope that we can afford to do it.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Those MotherShip pics are scary. For one, the work areas are very cluttered which could lead to confusion, errors, rework and overall inefficiency. It appears there is no system in place to ensure that all tools and support equipment are properly accounted for and not left in the ship. This could lead to foreign object debris (FOD) destroying the ship while it is in operation. The other scary element is the apparent lack of work stands or platforms for the mechanics. When a plane gets built, it is important to build work stands or platforms first so that the mechanics have a place to stand wherever they need to be. As you can see from the pictures, they are doing their work standing on ladders. In addition to the inefficiency factor mentioned earlier, this also leads to ergonomic and safety issues. A mechanic standing on a ladder can't do the same quality job as when both feet are firmly on a platform, especially if any riveting is involved. Oddly, SpaceShipTwo has platforms for their mechanics but the MotherShip crew only has ladders. I was actually interested in taking a ride on this until I saw the pictures of their work areas!
If anyone from Scaled wants me to come out and do a full-scale industrial engineering evaluation, feel free to contact me by replying.
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Doesn't anyone else see the irony in a company named "virgin" naming its first two ships after ships from the Star Trek series? ;-)
Those MotherShip pics are scary.
People said things like that about the Skunk Works back when Kelly Johnson was running the place, when they created the U-2 and SR-71. If we adhere strictly to your doctrine, those planes would be impossible. Yet they were built in those sorts of conditions, and remain incredible achievements to this day.
Turns out that if the organization has a lot of people who are truly amazingly talented, a lot of that corporate wisdom doesn't apply so much. Scaled Composites has the right combination of small size, corporate youth, and flexibility to be able to pull it off.
I'm not saying they *are* pulling it off, but I don't think you can say they aren't, either.
Of course, most organizations are not staffed that way -- there just aren't that many truly amazingly talented people out there. In any large organization, you have to plan on having some people who are merely excellent, a lot who are moderately talented, and your fair share of duds. (And that's if you're lucky.) You have design the organization itself to be fault tolerant.
There are also technical reasons why big companies and small companies can operate in different ways successfully. Take work platforms, for example. They're larger, more expensive, and less flexible. If you're building hundreds of planes, they pay off. If you're building an evolving prototype, they might actually hamper efforts.
I work for a small defense contractor. We get lots of work sub'ed to us from the big boys, precisely because we're more flexible and don't play by their rules. They keep telling us we're doing things inefficiently, but we consistently do things cheaper than their own in-house staff can.
So don't assume that just because Lockheed Martin and Boeing have to do things your way, that everyone has to.
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I tried to read the writing on the box and at first I thought I could read HL-33 9/24 which is a type of threaded fastener called a Hi-Lok, -33 is stainless which would make sense to use in carbon but I don't think that's what's in the box. 9/24 is a nonstandard size anyway I don't think it exists.
The writing appears to be dimensions, the boxes are used for ergonomic tests to make sure the various black boxes inside the vehicle can go in and out the doors. This is typical Rutan construction with rounded cutouts to avoid stress concentrations, that works well in carbon construction because theres not much ductility in the material. Mockup fit tests like these are typical and sometimes work better than trying to simulate it in CAD.
There's a QA label at the top, the QA department has measured and labelled the boxes.
Admittedly the box looks like it's being used as a weight at the time the picture was taken. But not for bonding, I seriously doubt any bonding is being done in the assembly jig, or at room temp. On a craft like this the bonding must be done in an oven or autoclave and the bond prep must be done in a clean room which as has been pointed out this facility isn't.
From the look of the structure I believe this may be a non-flying prototype, at least the fuse and wing pods. But for limited production vehicles like this and prototyping shops like Scaled things don't always look high-tech pretty so it my be flight hardware, R&D often looks like this.
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