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Telecom Immunity Bill Hides Spying Provisions

Posted by kdawson on from the some-compromise-means-capitulation dept.

Corrupt notes an Ars analysis of the FISA bill of which the telecom immunity provision has been getting all the attention. Timothy B. Lee enumerates the ways in which the bill loosens current protections on domestic wiretapping and opens up whole new areas to government eavesdropping. "The legislation eliminates meaningful judicial oversight of eavesdropping between American citizens and foreigners located overseas, and effectively legalizes dragnet surveillance of domestic-to-foreign traffic. It stretches out the judicial review process so much that the government will in many cases be able to complete its surveillance activities before the courts finish deciding on its legality."

10 of 202 comments (clear)

  1. Yello (belly) alert by sm62704 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    More murders are committed every year on American soil than all the American terrorist deaths in the 21st century. The difference between terrorism and ordinary murder is the intended victim - politicians.

    It wasn't the world trade center or even the Pentagon that created the hysteria over terrorists. It was the plane that didn't make it out of Pennsylvania, the one aimed at Congress.

    My government is run by cowards.

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    1. Re:Yello (belly) alert by gnick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was the plane that didn't make it out of Pennsylvania, the one aimed at Congress.

      Admittedly off-topic, but I'm curious. You really think that the 4th plane was aimed at Congress? I've always assumed that it was a second striker for the Pentagon. The first Pentagon plane hit an area that was under repair and didn't house any top brass. That was easily obtained information - Something that I assume that the planners knew. But putting a second plane into the other side would have made a mess - Heavily populated especially during an evacuation due to the impact from the first plane. And the style kind of fits based on the twin towers - 2 planes per site. Just my speculation.

      Back on-topic.

      The difference between terrorism and ordinary murder is the intended victim - politicians.

      I'm not so sure that you're correct in assuming that the push against terrorism is based on a fear of death by the politicians. They're not trying to save their skins, just their jobs. There's no fundamental difference between the war on terror and the war on drugs - It's a popular platform for politicians to rally on or rail against. It's exciting, it's patriotic, and it wins votes. Disgusting? Yes. Cowardly? Yes. But not a literal attempt to survive.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:Yello (belly) alert by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And nations are made up of people so pathetic, idiotic and divorced from reality that they invent these sorts of conspiracy theories.

      What happens is that in the absence of credible news, people make up their own. It has nothing to do with being 'pathetic,' 'idiotic' or 'divorced from reality.'

      It is similar to the way religions play the role of explainer of the unexplainable. Due to the government control of the media in most middle-eastern countries, the 'news' there is very unreliable and everybody there knows it. So they try to figure out a plausible explanation given what they know and believe.

      The quality of news reporting in the west has been in steady decline. It is no wonder we see more and more conspiracy theories here too. People are the same everywhere.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:Yello (belly) alert by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We already did. Forty thousand people die on American highways every single year. Those deaths are no less traumatic to the families than the WTC deaths to those families, or those murdered by non-political murderers.

      There is a difference between a terrorists attack or murder and accidents. Accidents, while unfortunate, do not leave the grieving yearning for revenge. Grieving is bad enough, but adding the rage that comes from knowing that ones who killed your loved one still live and breathe just makes it that much worse.

      I want some of that homeland security money to go to guard rails.

      I agree that highways should get much more funding, but there is a highway fund for that. Rather than using national security money for that purpose, how about we eliminate something like corn, dairy of tobacco subsidies and use THAT money instead.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  2. Slashdot community helped to keep a lid on it. by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I pointed this out in a recent story about revolts among the BO community, and was modded troll for daring to question the integrity of his holiness.

    Thanks slashdot for helping them cover it up until it was too late.

    Barack is incapable of evil, so supporting this like he is must be good, right?

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:Slashdot community helped to keep a lid on it. by gQuigs · · Score: 2, Interesting

      www.pledgebank.com/AS-IF-Privacy

      I drew the line on telecom immunity, although maybe I should not have been so specific. I would prefer if others would draw the line with me..

      "I will Vote Third Party for President If Telecom Immunity Passes Into Law but only if 100,000 other registered voters will do the same."

  3. Re:Checks and Balances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What's worse, kids in school today, probably are not going to learn even that. The year after I was finished my American Government class, which I was required to pass to graduate, the class was removed and no longer a requirement based on the Federal Education Standards. I'll let you draw your own conclusion as to why....

  4. Re:12% Approval by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A constitutionally mandated 10 year sunset date on all laws should also be enacted. They cannot be renewed by simple riders either. The laws must be re-drafted from scratch.

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
  5. Such concern for foreign communications... by mi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm surprised, these attempts by the Executive to ease their lives gets so much attention, when far grosser violations of the Executive/Judiciary powers have been accepted/condoned for decades.

    The most glaring example is "licensing" in general, and licensing the drivers — taxpayers wishing to use the tax-payed public roads — in particular. The Executive government gives the licenses and is free to take them away — without any Judicial oversight and without having to convict the accused of any sort of wrongdoing. Even if in most locales a traffic citation can be disputed in front of a judge, it is only because the Executive does not want to bother with their own procedures. And in New York they do — you only get to argue in a "traffic court", which is part of the Executive branch.

    Why does not it shock anybody, that more and more activities require a license, and thus the Executive Branch has more and more ways to make more and more people's lives miserable without even obtaining any sort of conviction (civil or criminal)?

    I'm not saying, the government's ability to monitor foreign phone-calls is a complete non-issue. But far more important impediments to freedom — taxpayer has no right (which can only be taken away by a court) to use a public road, only a privilege (which police can withdraw) to do so — have existed for decades with nary a whisper of outrage...

    Similarly, why do we accept, that operating a business (or renovating one's own house!) is not a right (the sacred pursuit of pursuit of happiness), but a mere privilege, exercising which requires paying fees and, quite often, jumping through significant hoops and accepting serious limitations?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  6. If we're upset enough by joocemann · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lets not vote for any congressman/senator that is in support. And lets stop using the telecoms in question. If its all of them, then so beit.

    I know my congressman was actually against it, so I've got less work to do that most of ya'll. Get to it.