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What Does It Take To Get a PC With XP?
An anonymous reader writes "Christopher Null tried to buy a computer with Windows XP pre-installed on it from the United States' nine biggest PC makers. His findings: You can get one, but be prepared to fib."
I constantly purchase Dell computers for my work. They come with XP Pre-Installed but they also have a Vista license.
Now for a normal home user, this may be different, but I've had no problems at all.
Maybe it's for the kind of computer...I purchase Latitudes, and precision computers. If someone wanted an Inspirion it may be different.
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
What does it take to get a PC with XP?
Our reporter tried to buy a computer with Windows XP preinstalled on it from the United States' nine biggest PC makers. His findings: You can get one, but be prepared to fib.
Christopher Null (PC World (US online)) 17/07/2008 15:58:43
I won't waste time rehashing the argument over whether Windows Vista is any good. The fact remains that lots of people prefer Windows XP, and they'll go to great lengths to get it.
The problem: Windows XP "officially" went off the market on June 30, 2008, and computer vendors aren't supposed to sell new machines configured with any version of Windows except Vista.
Fortunately for XP enthusiasts and Vista vetoers, the PC marketplace still has a loophole or two in it. In response to pressure from customers, Microsoft has made some concessions for people who really want XP, offering a lifeline for users willing and able to wade through the company's convoluted downgrading program. The upshot is that virtually every copy of Vista Business or Vista Ultimate Edition is sold with a license for XP, which a computer manufacturer can exercise to install XP Professional on any Vista Business or Vista Ultimate PC.
But just because a manufacturer can install XP doesn't mean that it will. And just because its official policy permits it to sell XP machines doesn't mean that its employees understand that policy.
To find out how difficult it is to get a new XP machine these days, I asked the nine largest PC vendors in the United States--Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, Acer, Fujitsu, Lenovo, Sony, and Asus--about the specifics of their downgrade policies. Then, to see how closely the official story synced up with the reality in the marketplace, I called sales representatives for each company and asked them whether I could purchase a new laptop equipped with XP from them.
The verdict? Downgrade policies are all over the map, and more than a few rank-and-file sales reps have a sketchy understanding of those policies. Some notebook PC sellers make getting XP preinstalled on a new laptop a snap; others don't offer it under any circumstance. As a rule of thumb, your odds of finding a machine with XP and a sales rep who knows how to configure a machine with that OS are far greater if you call the business sales line instead of the consumer sales line. (Be prepared to fib and say you're planning to buy 25 computers during the next 12 months.) Getting XP via online purchase can be tricky, too.
Here's how each manufacturer's formal policy--and informal reality--shakes out.
Dell
The Official Word: Dell has one of the most extensive and detailed policies on Windows XP of the nine vendors I investigated, but getting XP preinstalled on a machine may cost you extra. The company outlines the situation in this blog posting, where the company explains that though the XP downgrade program targets corporate customers, it's an option for general consumers, too. Though the rules are complicated, they are in line with those of most other sellers. To be eligible for an XP downgrade, you must be purchasing a Latitude laptop, an OptiPlex desktop, a Precision workstation, a Vostro laptop or desktop, an XPS 630 desktop, or an M1730 laptop. The machine must be specced to come with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate, and you can downgrade only to XP Professional. You must pay a $20 to $50 fee for the downgrade if you're buying a Vostro or XPS; corporate clients receive the downgrade at no charge. The program is slated to run until January 31, 2009, but Dell says that even after that it will continue to make some enterprise-level exceptions.
The Real Deal: Alas, not all Dell reps seemed to be up to speed on the company's XP strategy. First I tried to purchase an Inspiron running XP for "home use" (that's not covered in Dell's policy, but I decided to try my luck anyway). The harried sales rep I spoke to told me, "We don't have any computers running XP any more." After some pushing, he acknowledged that "I think business has them" but ins
TFA appears to be slashdotted, but I would suggest that it's just a matter of trying different (often smaller) suppliers until you find somebody who is willing to oblige. Smaller local shops can put together a system built exactly to your spec, and will happily install Windows XP, all drivers, test the entire rig before delivering it to you, and offer a warranty equivalent to the big boxes.
If libertarians are so opposed to effective government, why don't they all move to Somalia?
Not that a large discussion needs to be had here as the article likely pertains (OCIDNRTFA) to home ownership, but I've chosen to start using Vista at work as of about 3 weeks ago.
And it's, uh, fine. I have 2 GB of memory installed, Vista boots up to use half of that. Firefox, Thunderbird, Photoshop, server admin tools, web design programs are what I use mostly (and putty). The re-install process of everything got a little old with the administrator prompts (I run as a normal user, something I was reluctant to do in XP), but at the same time, it's nice not to have to choose Run as... all the time.
We use it at home on a laptop as well (the kids' gaming machine is XP) and aside from taking 30 seconds to connect to the wireless after sleeping, it's fine.
I think I just don't have any really high-performance needs, so Vista actually works for me. Whole Disk encryption is easier as well with Vista I hear, though I don't use it.
It'd be great if some laptops were sold with a blank harddrive
You mean, "Isn't it great that plenty of laptops are sold with blank hard drives." Go to pricewatch.com and check the 'laptops, no OS' section or google for 'laptop barebones'. They'll all be the original brands, Clevo, Compal, Asus, etc, and not the reseller brands, Sony, Dell, HP, etc. But it'll be the same thing and cost less. What you get with the big names is 1: a support phone line, 2: the exact same laptop with a brand name sticker strangers will respect you for being able to afford and, of course 3: Windows.
You are completely wrong. You can resell retail versions of XP with no problem. Possibly OEM as well. You just can't resell the copy that came with your Dell, as it is marked "not for resell".
I finally updated my sig, but now it's lame.
I am an experienced software developer, and I have been installing and configuring computers for years (including DOS/Windows 3.11). While your experience may have been fine, rest assured that there are reasons why so many people hated Vista. "I have had nothing but problems with my Upgrade from Windows XP Pro to Windows Vista Business. The OS is plagued with driver and application issues, Windows Explorer takes ages for the most simple of tasks, the indexing service sucks up the hard disk even when the computer is in use, the user account control is endlessly nagging you, it is less stable than Windows XP (I get at least one blue screen of death every few days), the performance is absolutely abysmal for even the most mundane tasks, Windows doesn't turn on the screen half the time when resuming from standby, file sync doesn't work properly, indexing service wouldn't reinstall after uninstalling, none of my VPNs work properly, file search takes forever (with or without the indexing service turned on), when disabling and re-enabling my network card half the time the Disable button doesn't turn into a Enable button which requires me to reboot, the system restore wants to save the registry every time I boot (making it take forever), and an endless list of other annoying nuggets of lameness. I think the editor reviews that people wrote were after using it for a day or two. Sure, alot of the new features are cool, except none of them work correctly. Use it for a couple weeks and it will have you cursing non-stop."
I bought a T81 from Lenovo with SuSe Linux 10 on it; no windows tax. That was direct from Lenovo.com
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Ironically, you should read the "Computer Software" section of the first sale article. The last paragraph in that section refers to a case where it was not upheld. Then read page 13, lines 12-21 of MDY Industries, LLC v. Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. et al for a reference to three cases, that show examples of the issue of licensed vs. sold software and what rights you may not have under copyright law with licensed software.
NO.
The steps I've seen documented are:
1) Get an XP CD and key. The CD has to match the key (e.g., OEM CD with OEM key, retail CD with retail key). Just to answer a FAQ: Yes, ANY. Even if it's an already activated copy of XP, or with OEM versions, bound to another machine and activated. Heck, it can be activated through Microsoft, too. You just need a legic CD and key, regardless of whether or not it's been activated, requires activation, what have you. (BTW, I think you need XP Pro - you can't downgrade to XP Home... but I could be wrong (Vista Home->XP Home? I know Vista Buziness+ -> XP Pro).
2) Use that CD and key to install XP.
3) When you activate, choose the phone option, and call Microsoft. Tell them you're downgrading your Vista to XP, and give them your Vista key, the code that the phone-activation shows (and possibly the key you're using). They'll then give you a code to enter in to activate it.
You cannot do an internet activation (since Microsoft needs to know you're exercising your downgrade rights).
However, recently the first sale right was upheld by the court in the Softman v. Adobe case - Softman was the guy who wanted to sell an Adobe Product via e-bay. Technically, they said, if the license is "forever" it can be considered a product being sold.
From http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5628 :
"The Court understands fully why licensing has many advantages for software publishers. However, this preference does not alter the Court's analysis that the substance of the transaction at issue here is a sale and not a license," Judge Pregerson writes. If you put your money down and walked away with a CD, you bought that copy, EULA or no EULA.
More info in the wikipedia entry.
It's true, and it's fucking retarded. We pay to send and receive cell phone calls/text messages. I don't understand how this sits with people as being ok, either, and I'm an American.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
Americans PAY to receive cellphone calls? Can someone confirm that? Do people find this ridiculous, or is this commonly accepted?
Yes, it's true, and it's commonly accepted. The reason is a bit long.
Historically, cell phone service cost quite a bit more to provide than landline service, so someone has to pay more when a cell phone is part of a call.
Most of the world has taken the view that the caller should pay more when calling a cell phone, and that the cell phone recipient shouldn't pay for the call.
In the USA, people have long been used to making unlimited local calls on landlines.
Unlike many countries, cell phones in the USA (and Canada) do not have a reserved numbering scheme where the phone number clearly identifies that this number is a cell phone.
It was tried to have a reserved numbering scheme to identify cell phones and charge the caller more for calling a cell phone. The market overwhelmingly rejected it. People said, "You want me to pay more to call you on your cell phone? Get a real phone you piece of [censored] yuppie!" and refused to call. For market acceptance, the caller could not be charged extra to call a cell phone.
So, the only other person to charge for the call was the cell phone owner.
So, US cellphone ownwers pay to make & receive calls. On the other hand, it doesn't cost more to call a cellphone instead of a landline, and it usually costs less to make an outgoing call from a cell phone.
Frankly, many of you non-USians are getting screwed on calls. I once called my friend on her mobile in Sydney, Australia. My call had to cross the entire Pacific ocean, but I still paid less to talk to her than her mother (located in Sydney, Australia) does to call her on her mobile. Why? Competition and not having to deal with the local oligopoly.
Further, cellphone calls are getting very cheap in the US. Many carriers have unlimited plans for $100 USD or less - unlimited incoming & outgoing local calls, domestic long distance, data, and SMS.
You can just purchase a PC with vista business or "higher". Then just install Windows XP on it. When prompted for an activation code, just use a code from another PC.
Then you'll find it often won't activate through the internet, so you call Microsoft on the number displayed on the screen. Then you'll get a representative and you'll them him/her you're downgrading from windows vista business to XP.
On rare occasions they'll ask you for the Windows vista business license code. Next, you'll get the code by phone and just activate it.
We use this procedure all the time on all of our new computers.