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Online Colleges Could Spy On Students – By Law

skeazer writes "Tucked away in a 1,200-page bill now in Congress is a small paragraph that could lead distance-education institutions to require spy cameras in their students' homes. It sounds Orwellian, but the paragraph — part of legislation renewing the Higher Education Act — is all but assured of becoming law by the fall. No one in Congress objects to it."

19 of 307 comments (clear)

  1. Right. by PieSquared · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I haven't read TFA, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that by "spy cameras in their homes" they mean a camera attached to the computer while school work (or at least tests) is being done in an effort to make sure the degree goes to the person doing the work?

    As long as it isn't required to be on except while the student is doing work that would take place under the eyes of a professor or TA in a "real" college and as long as enrollment is voluntary I can't imagine it's really that objectionable.

    --
    Does a line appended to your comment give your post meaning in and of itself, or only in relation to those without?
    1. Re:Right. by AllIGotWasThisNick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What guarantee is there that the camera can't be used for other purposes?

      Because you've unplugged it?

    2. Re:Right. by ZeroFactorial · · Score: 4, Insightful
      First, I am reminded of the Scott Adams quotes:

      Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems.

      Normal people don't understand this concept; they believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.

      Second, and more importantly, why are we so focused on putting systems in place to prevent cheating?

      Spending time and resources on a system to FORCE obedience to the rule is inherently wrong, and is DEFINITELY Orwellian.
      Lets start focusing on teaching our kids to NOT CHEAT instead of expending so much time and so many resources in an effort to force them to comply.
      For those who still do cheat, life will ultimately expose them for the stupid jackass they are.

      And if it doesn't? Then the educational requirements were probably unnecessary for the profession they chose and perhaps the requirements should be rethought.

      You can sit a person down in a chair and force them to stay, but you can't force them to learn.
      Learning is a choice. Not learning is also a choice.

    3. Re:Right. by Mike1024 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're right - If you read TFA it says:

      Tucked away in a 1,200-page bill now in Congress is a small paragraph that could lead distance-education institutions to require spy cameras in their students' homes.

      It sounds Orwellian, but the paragraph â" part of legislation renewing the Higher Education Act â" is all but assured of becoming law by the fall. No one in Congress objects to it.

      The paragraph is actually about clamping down on cheating. It says that an institution that offers an online program must prove that an enrolled student is the same person who does the work.

      In other words the law says distance learning institutions must make an effort to verify work is done by the right person - and one technology those institutions are experimenting with is webcams.

      It's typical slashdot to quote just enough of the article to give completely the wrong impression.

      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
    4. Re:Right. by value_added · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And you would be right. Was the summary that obvious?

      Well, the article does discuss both the test-taking aspect in addition to other concerns, and what the legislation actually says isn't made clear, other than a a description of it that reads "an institution that offers an online program must prove that an enrolled student is the same person who does the work."

      Without knowing how "work" is defined, my guess is that the intent of the legislation is reasonable. That's not to say the technologies or workarounds being put into effect are.

      I imagine that if this is mostly about test taking, then video cameras are hardly onerous. If every computer sold today came with a camera, and video confering was a routine affair, I imagine all on-line educating would be handled that way, as it's little different than being there in person. Granted, being able to "attend" remotely while just wearing your underwear won't be possible, but that doesn't strike me as a significant disadvantage. Or desirable.

    5. Re:Right. by againjj · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spending time and resources on a system to FORCE obedience to the rule is inherently wrong, and is DEFINITELY Orwellian. Lets start focusing on teaching our kids to NOT CHEAT instead of expending so much time and so many resources in an effort to force them to comply. For those who still do cheat, life will ultimately expose them for the stupid jackass they are.

      So would you consider cops enforcing legal compliance with your local legal code to be Orwellian?

      Laws generally only work correctly when everyone buys into the system. Do you drive with flat tires? Do you drive at night with your lights off? Do you burn other people's houses down for fun? No? Why? Because it is illegal? Probably not. Rather, it is bad for the car, dangerous, and ethically wrong, respectively. On the other hand, have you driven above the speed limit? Have you ever bought a candy bar from a kid without paying sales tax? Have you ever thrown away a (battery-powered) watch into the trash? Probably, even though they are all illegal. And putting in measures to always enforce these restrictions, or worse, only enforcing them for capricious reasons, is Orwellian. I actually am of the opinion that some of our local legal code and some of the enforcement thereof to be Orwellian. If there is a legal system that it is not possible to avoid offending, even with the best of intentions, you give power to the police force that they should not have. Sorry, not the best example.

      That said, I do not know if I would consider legally requiring anti-cheating measures for online courses to be Orwellian. But I would say requiring cameras as the implementing method (which I did not get out of the article) would be.

  2. They can't stop it in person by DustoneGT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They can't stop the cheating in person...what makes them think they can stop it over the internet?

    1. Re:They can't stop it in person by Angus+McNitt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or even use a remote desktop application (or a monitor splitter and spare kb and mouse) and have another person do the work while you sit there and appear studious.

      --
      "To Do Is To Be" - Socrates, "To Be Is To Do" - Sartre, "Do Be Do Be Do" - Sinatra
  3. Re:I tend to masturbate at home during work breaks by Steauengeglase · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, you can either buy back the footage for a minimal cost or cease activity when watched by administrators.

    In all seriousness, isn't this why we have proctors, so that someone can watch you while you perform tasks required for your grade?

  4. FUD spreads better than butter by RabidMoose · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This article is setting off my FUDDAR. Summary written to make the new law sound worse than it likely will be, and ommiting the reasons behind it.

  5. More needless government intervention by operagost · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, I don't see a problem with an online school implementing this on their own, exclusively for exams, as long as the device can be disconnected and software removed afterwards. Don't like that? Try another school. Capitalism wins.

    The real issue, I believe, is that the government seems to think it has the right to require that these devices be used. This will keep the price of these devices high and the slope nice and slippery.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    1. Re:More needless government intervention by AllIGotWasThisNick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The real issue, I believe, is that the government seems to think it has the right to require that these devices be used.

      So long as the government continues to pay out tuition subsidies, it should have the authority to specify the requirements for academic credibility. No doubt some "elite" institutions could forego government funding and avoid the regulation.

      This is pretty similar to drunk driving laws vs. federal highway subsidies, and AT&T vs. wiring subsidies.

  6. Re:I tend to masturbate at home during work breaks by AllIGotWasThisNick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's why students need to pay for their own proctoring. They already pay for textbooks, transportation, internet, etc. This is just something else to be not subsidized.

    Disclaimer: I no longer work in Distance Ed.

  7. Real problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    School is for learning things...and that is the problem.

    The increasing availability of higher education (through convenient and affordable online colleges, as just one example) is resulting in an increasingly high percentage of highly educated people in the work force.

    Unfortunately, the number of jobs that actually require that kind of education is not increasing at the same rate.

    What happens when supply increases faster than demand? The price drops.

    That means that more employers are requiring higher education for jobs that don't really need it, and are paying less and less for the jobs that actually do need it. Thus, all the workers lose out, because now one MUST have a higher education just to do a mundane job that won't use any of those skills and won't pay you enough to dig yourself out of the debt you incurred from all the student loans.

    Don't believe me? Look at the economy in India.

    1. Re:Real problem by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't believe me? Look at the economy in India.

      Yes, I'd hate to have the second largest rate of economic growth since 1980 (behind China). Sounds awful.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  8. Re:And to think. . . by AllIGotWasThisNick · · Score: 4, Insightful

    rather than getting a fancy piece of paper

    While it may be true for you that school is for learning things, it really depends upon which school and program you mean. The majority of the training/education industry (as far as the government is concerned) is about meeting industry's HR needs, and has nothing to do with the lofty goals of education for the benefit of the individual.

  9. It is entirely objectionable and wrong by InvisblePinkUnicorn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does this need to be a law? Can't employers simply choose to reject someone who graduates from an institution that makes no effort to verify who is taking their students' tests?

  10. Re:And to think. . . by Bob-taro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why should the government create a law that requires that schools enforce no-cheating?

    It's so some politician can brag, "I worked with congress to pass a law that eliminated cheating in American universities!"

    --
    Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
  11. The whole idea is horseshit. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Before "internet" colleges, there were correspondence colleges. Still "distance learning", and still (in some cases) accredited.

    The Internet doesn't change anything there at all. So where were their Orwellian rules before?

    This nonsense is just another example of blaming the internet for something that has always existed, and using that as an excuse to further intrude.

    What a crock.