Police Shame Pranksters On YouTube

Barence writes "British police are shaming hoax 999 callers and time-wasters on YouTube in an effort to cut down on non-emergency calls. Video clips uploaded include a lady phoning police to ask what year the internet started, the dramatic tale of a man whose wife would only provide salmon sandwiches for lunch, and another worried soul who had lost her glasses and could not see properly to peel potatoes. Anyone else think the chance of YouTube fame is more likely to encourage copycats than educate people about the wrongs of hoax calling?"

Comments

Bloody Brilliant Idea

[PakProtector]

Is it just me, or is England already well down the spiral towards "What the Fuck are you Thinking, Nation?"

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[PakProtector]

I'm not talking about the Youth -- that's an entirely separate discussion.

I'm talking about the namby-pamby morons in charge of the nation; people who are worried that the police dogs are going to scare the criminals they're being used against, or say that an adult can't take pictures of vandals because they're minors.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

For what? Maybe our forefathers did some bastardly things in their day, but we're still pretty peaceful and don't go stomping around the globe attacking anyone that MAY just be a terrorist, all because we're too scared to admit that shit happens sometimes.
At least we just get on with things and don't let them terrify us into doing stupid things...

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[geekmux]

I'm talking about the namby-pamby morons in charge of the nation; people who are worried that the police dogs are going to scare the criminals they're being used against, or say that an adult can't take pictures of vandals because they're minors.

Good point, and I stand corrected. When digging for a solution, one must look for the root cause. IMHO, that root cause has been the downward spiral of our legal system. Until we start threatening disbarment on lawyers that bring us the no-shit-it's-hot coffee lawsuits and punishing judges that actually allow this tripe through the doors of a courtroom, we will continue to be a paralyzed nation, hog-tied under the threat of ligitation.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[residieu]

Yeah, but they're youth. They're supposed to be stupid. Here's the police, who are supposed to have sense, taking people who are wasting public resources because they want attention and giving them even more attention by putitng them on YouTube. What are they Thinking?

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[hobbit]

I agree with you in general -- but the Falklands War a war of aggression on Britain's part? Could you please elaborate?

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[icebrain]

Well, to be fair (and assuming I remember the details correctly), the coffee in that cse was a lot hotter than it was supposed to be. So it's not quite as moronic as it sounds at first.

But seriously, the perp suing the homeowner because he hurt himself breaking in? Throwing a homeowner in jail for shooting perps that broke into his house, while said perps with long rap sheets get off? Guy fights back against someone who attacks him with a knife, and goes to jail for it? WTF, England?

This is meant on an entirely serious note... should we bring back public floggings for some offenses? I think that would be a lot more effective than the figurative slap on the wrist that is so often employed.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[Alsee]

Is it just me, or is England already well down the spiral towards "What the Fuck are you Thinking, Nation?"

England? Just you.
Homo Sapiens, the "What the Fuck are you Thinking, Species".

-

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[spun]

Wow, McDonalds did a great job at PR in that case! You never hear about the consultant that told them to lower the coffee temperature, or how they had reduced the amount of material in the cups to the point where they would fall apart if you had the lid off and put any pressure on them. Just to save a few hundredths of a penny per cup.

This case has become the example everyone uses to prove the legal system is screwed. McDonalds corporate overlords must be laughing all the way to the bank, they've managed to turn a PR nightmare into a goldmine of free publicity.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Colonialism is aggression. The British have no right to be there.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[chromeshadow]

Interesting. By the same token, the British have no right to be in Britain, nor the Americans in America. In fact, no-one has a 'right' to occupy any particular piece of land.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[FireFury03]

This is meant on an entirely serious note... should we bring back public floggings for some offenses? I think that would be a lot more effective than the figurative slap on the wrist that is so often employed.

I'm of the opinion that instead of slapping teenagers with an ASBO, there's a lot to be said for putting them in stocks in the middle of the town. (yes, I'm being serious).

But of course, that would be humiliating and we can't possibly humiliate someone in front of their friends when they break the law...

Also, on a less serious note, it would improve the economy by allowing grocery shops to sell off their rotten fruit for the purpose of chucking at the damned yoofs. :)

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[causality]

But seriously, the perp suing the homeowner because he hurt himself breaking in? Throwing a homeowner in jail for shooting perps that broke into his house, while said perps with long rap sheets get off? Guy fights back against someone who attacks him with a knife, and goes to jail for it? WTF, England?

At least in the USA, what began by being taught in public schools is now becoming further institutionalized as entire generations grow up under absurd standards like these. For example, in the public schools, someone can physically attack you without provocation and if you defend yourself, you are punished and your punishment is equal to theirs for attacking you. This is true no matter how well-established it is that the other person started the fight. The rank-and-file teachers and administrators who go along with this are what you might call "true believers" who think that all use of force is wrong, including those cases where you are attacked and have no choice but to defend yourself. This serves to deny personal responsibility in the case of the attacker (the idea that if you attack someone unprovoked, what happens next is on your head) and fosters that damned victim mentality that is so prevalent these days in the case of the defender. Of course this is insanity, which is why they start such policies at a young age. Not because children don't know injustice when they see it, but because they are less able to resist it and instead they become callous to it.

I can think of two major reasons for this mentality and for why it would spread from government schools to society at large. First of all, the state wants to have a monopoly on the use of force no matter how justified that use of force is. Someone who is armed and willing and legally able to defend his own home and his own family might not feel as dependent on government as a helpless victim who cowers in a corner hoping that the cops show up soon. "Government to the rescue" is big, big business these days and helpless, timid people are so much easier to govern.

The other major reason is that there is a sort of war being waged against the concept of individuality and it's not because we have transcended ego boundaries but because our leaders have a statist, collectivist agenda. That's why the news media loves to bring up race and social status and religion and sexual orientation even when they are otherwise irrelevant to the story, because these are group identities. They are trying to teach you, by constantly reinforced example, to think in terms of groups, not individuals. This is why political candidates worry about "the black vote" and "the hispanic vote" and "the elderly vote" instead of telling us why they believe they have superior ideas that would apply equally to everyone (something you'd rationally expect from government). It's hard to think of something more individualistic than defending yourself, your home, and your family instead of waiting for "the professionals" to come along and do it for you.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[somersault]

He was not at this point acting in defence of himself or his property

If it was true that he had been burgled several times (the police didn't seem to think so of course), then why should he have to scare them away each time? Better to give them a bit more reason not to come back again, though I don't think they were quite worthy of actual death. Just because you have scared someone away once doesn't mean they won't be back with their mates later.

In America this wouldn't have been given a second look by the press, but over here in the UK it's a massive deal.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[stdarg]

If you're referring to Tony Martin: his house was burgled, he confronted the burglars, and they fled. He then fired upon them as they were running away. He was not at this point acting in defence of himself or his property; this aim had already been achieved, with the burglars now leaving the premises. He opened fire anyway.

I don't know if that's what GP was referring to, but it's still ridiculous. Who's to say they wouldn't come back to retaliate? Next time they'd shoot first. I would be very nervous if I had chased off a small gang that A) knew where I lived and B) already showed criminal disposition.

And life imprisonment?? What risk is this guy posing to *civilized society*? None. That punishment is complete bullshit.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[Pantero Blanco]

I'm sorry, but convenience is not a good reason for a citizen to use deadly force.

Preventing someone from robbing you repeatedly isn't "convenience". There's no point in trying to build or earn _anything_ if some jerk can just come take it.

When the police are incapable or unwilling (or both) to do their job, people will start to do it for them. This will result in a lot more dead bodies. If a nation doesn't want that, it should make sure its police are capable and willing to protect its citizens. Anything less is _begging_ for vigilantism.

Re:Bloody Brilliant Idea

[Gizzmonic]

Remember Bernie Goetz? That guy was lionized for shooting some kids on a subway for allegedly trying to rob him. Hell this guy is still giving interviews in the press almost a quarter century later.

Allegedly? The perpetrators have admitted they were trying to rob him. And guess what? Most of the perps participated in armed robbery AFTER being shot, one of them was even a convicted rapist. I'm not a gun nut, but get the facts straight-the people that were after him were thugs.

Yes

[Oh no, it's Dixie]

If anything, the prank callers should be given less attention. That being said, the videos are hilarious, and I want more of them.

TRUFAX.

[Rob T Firefly]

Anyone else think the chance of YouTube fame is more likely to encourage copycats than educate people about the wrongs of hoax calling?

Yes, because there was certainly no such thing as prank phone calls before Youtube came along.

Re:TRUFAX.

[Rob T Firefly]

People have no respect for anyone any more, themselves included. If they want them to stop they should hit them where it hurts, in their wallet. Even a small $50 fine for a non-emergency 999/911 call would be enough to deter pranksters.

I agree that 999/911/etc. pranksters deserve some sort of punishment, but the fact of the matter is it's easy enough to avoid having such calls traced back to you that anyone can do it with little to no hassle. With a little Googling and effort anyone can spoof their phone number, or even simply use a public phone that doesn't have a camera pointed at it.

Brilliant...

[whisper_jeff]

These 14 year old twits are looking for attention so the cops are giving them international exposure... That couldn't possibly backfire and have the exact opposite outcome... Seriously, if the cops can't understand the very simple and basic motivation of pranksters, what does that say for their ability to understand criminals?...

Hoaxes Versus Timewasters

[mdwh2]

Anyone else think the chance of YouTube fame is more likely to encourage copycats than educate people about the wrongs of hoax calling?

For people who intentionally timewaste, maybe, but if there are really people who think it's normal to use 999 for some trivial matter, then raising awareness like this may be useful (though perhaps there is the danger that although it might reduce ignorance, it might increase people who intentionally pretend to be ignorant for a joke).

I haven't looked at these videos, but they have done this sort of thing before on their own sites - one thing that struck me was just how long the operators remain on the call, in some cases getting into a long drawn out discussion about it. If timewasting is such a problem, why not hang up straight away, or press a button to play a recorded message?

I'm also curious how likely this is to be a problem - the usual problem with hoax calls is that a police/ambulance is sent out unnecessarily, but that doesn't apply here. If the volume of calls is so large that it's common for people to wait in a queue to be answered, wouldn't it be worthwhile to, you know, hire some more operators?

The cost of these timewasters should be the cost of the person's time who was employed to answer the call. If the cost is someone's life, then something's wrong with the system.

Re:Hoaxes Versus Timewasters

[xaxa]

one thing that struck me was just how long the operators remain on the call, in some cases getting into a long drawn out discussion about it. If timewasting is such a problem, why not hang up straight away, or press a button to play a recorded message?

One of the videos has the 999 operator telling the caller he'll now hear the recorded message.

Perhaps the operators can see how busy the queue of callers is -- if there aren't any calls in the queue, they may as well try and make sure the person who called 999 about their sandwiches doesn't ever call back.

I'm also curious how likely this is to be a problem - the usual problem with hoax calls is that a police/ambulance is sent out unnecessarily, but that doesn't apply here. If the volume of calls is so large that it's common for people to wait in a queue to be answered, wouldn't it be worthwhile to, you know, hire some more operators?

The cost of these timewasters should be the cost of the person's time who was employed to answer the call. If the cost is someone's life, then something's wrong with the system.

"Around 10 million 999 calls to the police were made in 2004, but an incredible 70% of these were not for genuine emergencies."
Since the calls are answered and last a minute or more, there are presumably enough operators. Perhaps they are just trying to cut down on the number of operators they need.

Hoaxes, or mental illness?

[gravyface]

I haven't RTFM, but having worked with paranoid schizophrenics and Alzheimer's sufferers in the past, I would bet that some of these "pranksters" may actually be mentally ill; I hope our public servants are at least screening these individuals before humiliating them on YouTube.

Re:Hoaxes, or mental illness?

[bamwham]

Many "frequent fliers" with ambulance services are just lonely and depressed elderly people who need someone to talk to. I would guess many 911(or 999 as the case may be) time wasters (as opposed to pranksters) have the same issues. It would be nice if society could find a way to reknit the social fabric that used to help these people.

Re:How about a dead mouse on a porch?

[the eric conspiracy]

We have had cities for 5000 years yet soooo many people are still incapable of civilized behavior, be it due to nitwittery or hooliganism. Clearly we need to give the process of natural selection an assist in this case and rid the population of such individuals through summary execution.

Some of the new crimes against civilization should be:

o Texting whilst driving
o Driving under the influence of disabling drugs
o Prank calls to emergency services
o Sexual abuse of children
o Invasion of privacy by a government official
o Inability to find the roots of a quadratic

etc.

last couple of frames should be the charges

[RichMan]

The last bit of each segments should list the charges/fines against the person who called.

Examples:
Called 911 for a tuna sandwich, $400 fine.

Called 911 for the capital of Spain, 2 weeks community service.

Sure the internet notoriety might get some to call but it could be balanced by showing the penalty applied.

Re:Privacy?

[Dhalka226]

I for sure know then when I see somebody in an emergency, I will think twice before I call and most likely decide my privacy is more worth then the life of some kid.

You, sir, are an idiot. I know Slashdotters love worthless hyperbole, but if you would seriously even THINK about letting somebody DIE because you--what, don't want people to hear your voice?--then you're simply a worthless human being. Period.

Privacy my ass.

This is a mental health issue

[cenonce]

This is a mental health issue, and a stupid way of dealing with it. I work in a Public Defender's Office, and while I am sure some of these people are jerks, my experience has been that people who call emergency services with these kinds of requests often have mental health issues. That is why a lot of jurisdictions have mental health diversionary programs for people who commit minor offenses. Embarassing the mentally ill on the internet will only embolden them at best, but certainly not help them deal with their issues in any way. In that regard, this solution seems rather callous.

Re:How about a dead mouse on a porch?

[operagost]

I'd humbly suggest that removing the phone from the house of an elderly, helpless, senile person is probably not a complete solution.

Re:Not a bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately the measures employed to reduce misuse of 999 calls (in the UK) does not stop ass-hattery on the side of the 999 response centre.
Half a year back, I called 999 to report a break-in in progress. I did this from my mobile phone as my student halls do not have landlines. Vodafone took 6 minutes (I timed it) to connect me to Glasgow Emergency Services even though I was in Oxford, a few hundred miles south... It took another 3 minutes to hand me over to the Oxford Centre just to speak to someone who had no local knowledge and required to pull out an A-Z to find the street I was talking about. Quality! If I had been attacked, I would have been long dead

Nothing works

[SmallFurryCreature]

Overheard an interview on dutch radio yesterday when two crimonologists were telling of their exprience with crime research to celebrate 100years of the field.

One researcher in the field apparently claimed "Nothing works" before killing himself (didn't catch his name).

It seemed to be the general consensus, some groups commit crime, we understand a few of the causes but not yet all but are powerless to really affect it.

It doesn't matter if you hang everyone or send them of with a stern look, crime figures all over the world are roughly similar.

The most effective way to stop crime? Tech that stops the crime before it can happen. You can't stop people from wanting to be criminals and you can't stop them once they are but if they can't actually commit the crime you stopped them nonetheless.

But all in all, people been looking for a solution for a 100 years and still there isn't one.

Re:Nothing works

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

The most effective way to stop crime? Tech that stops the crime before it can happen. You can't stop people from wanting to be criminals and you can't stop them once they are but if they can't actually commit the crime you stopped them nonetheless.

All this does is breed smarter criminals. Unless we start being able to read minds, this is outside the realm of possibility. And like the overuse of antibiotics, it doesn't 'kill' the 'bacteria' --- it just makes it come back stronger and /more likely/ to thrive.

The problem is that culturally, we practically deify criminal behavior. "Oh no," we say. "That bad bad man killed 30 people!". Then we spend years watching documentaries and specials and movies about how he got away with it for so long.

Our popular methods of artistic expression (writing, movies, games) exhibit the same not-so-grudging respect and admiration for those who commit criminal acts. This is not new - it extends back through recorded history. However the obvious answer of censorship is pointless as a solution-- arts are a reflection of humanity, not a prime motivating factor.

This "shame" tactic is just more of the same, and it is clearly not the answer.

Ultimately the question is this: how do you convince humans to stop being humans? If we can ever figure that out, we'll be living in a crime-free utopia.

Re:Nothing works

[arevos]

All this does is breed smarter criminals.

This is probably a good thing. The majority of crimes are committed because the criminal is too stupid to accurately assess risk versus payout. Criminals that make more than the average wage are extremely rare.

Re:No, I do not agree with you!

[janrinok]

The perps had burgled him previously

There is no evidence that I have seen to prove that he was burgled by the SAME individuals. He had been burgled, that is true, but during the trial he was asked what measures he had taken to prevent further break-ins. He had taken none. So living in an isolated place, known to have some money, taking no protective measures around his property. Crime is never justified but it is not surprising in this case that he was burgled more than once.

....and restore your God given rights.

Which God would that be? If it's the Christian God that you are referring to, which of the Ten Commandments mentions that you can shoot people. I do recall 'Thou shalt not kill', but I cannot remember one suggesting that you can shoot burglars. Perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention last time I went to Church.

Your 'rights' regarding firearms are nothing more than a throwback to the Wild West and the events that followed during the formative years of your nation. However, I stopped thinking that I was a cowboy when I grew up. You are entitled, both individually and as a Nation, to continue to carry weapons but please don't think less of others because they choose not to.

Martin did not make a stand for justice. After the event he hid the weapon at his mother's house (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)). He can hardly claim that he did not know that he was committing a crime if he went so far as to try to hide the weapon. His defence successfully used the excuse that 'Martin suffered paranoid personality disorder'. So, nobody was claiming that he was making a stand but simply that he had killed without justification (under our law - not yours) and therefore should be punished accordingly. The defence, as is their job, managed to get the sentence reduced.

From the wiki-link: The jury at the trial were told that they had the option of returning a verdict of manslaughter, rather than murder, if they thought that Martin "did not intend to kill or cause serious bodily harm". However, they found Martin guilty of murder by a 10 to 2 majority. He was sentenced to life in prison, the mandatory sentence for murder under English law.

I do not agree with your point of view. Ten members of the 12 man jury disagree with you also. The other 2 are welcome to emigrate to the USA, if they haven't already done so. :-)