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Politician Takes Enlightened Stance on Gaming

GamePolitics is reporting that one Australian would-be politician is taking an enlightened stance on gaming in general, and especially with respect to censorship. "Censorship is odious because it removes community choice. Censorship says that the thought is the action; that the common person can't distinguish between depiction and actuality... Censorship says, 'Let me decide who talks.' And games are talking. They're talking very loudly, to a great many people, in strong and clear voices. They're speaking in places that have never read a newspaper and in houses which have never listened to politicians. It's okay to be worried by what games are saying. It's okay to disagree. But it's not okay to stifle those voices. It's not okay to kill the game."

68 comments

  1. That's good, but... by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    On the one hand, you're in Australia, where that really needs to be said. On the other hand, you're in Australia, good luck getting the ratings board there to listen to you.

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  2. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...whatever you do, DO NOT USE HIS NAME. Quote him if you must, but again DO NOT USE HIS NAME!

    It's Greg Tannahill, btw.

    1. Re:Well... by philspear · · Score: 3, Funny

      Greg Tannahill SOUNDS like a real name, but telling the electorate that they don't have the right to dictate what videogames you can and can't play DOESN'T sound like a real politician.

      Most of all though, this "Australia" you speak of does not sound like a real place.

    2. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      damn, he's caught on to us!

    3. Re:Well... by Cassius+Corodes · · Score: 1

      Well just change our name to Robonia

      --
      Control is an illusion, order our comforting lie. From chaos, through chaos, into chaos we fly
    4. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not Yahtzee Cronshaw?

  3. Now we only need few more revisions by SupremoMan · · Score: 1

    Remove would-be, replace one with many and Australia with America, and I will be happy.

  4. Oh my... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... next they will say hes soft on drugs/porn/violence/demon worship because the supports the sale of video games. He would never get elected again if he lived in the US. I wish him luck though.

  5. Love That Bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Ah, so it's an "enlightened" stance when it happens to agree with your viewpoint?

    Gimme a fucking break.

    1. Re:Love That Bias by debatem1 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't worry, it would still be enlightened even if it disagreed with yours.

    2. Re:Love That Bias by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course I'll call someone enlightened that agrees with me. If I don't agree with myself, I'm just calling myself stupid... and I try very hard to avoid being stupid.

      So yes. Biased. But not unexpected.

    3. Re:Love That Bias by Cheesebisquit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's enlightened because it promotes freedoms rather than restricting them.

    4. Re:Love That Bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All philosophy is a lie based on opinions.

    5. Re:Love That Bias by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Of course! And it is "idiotic" when it disagrees...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    6. Re:Love That Bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree 100%.

      Of course I agree with any anti-censorship view, it's bullshit that it's titled "enlightened." Talk about bias.

  6. Yup, Good luck with that. by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 1

    It sounds like he's taking the opposite view of the people in power down-under. I guess he's hoping that people will vote for change, enlightened or not.

    1. Re:Yup, Good luck with that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nope this view is the similar to those held by the majority of the people in power, except for one particular politician in South Australia...

      Unfortunately it requires the approval of the Attorney General of each State to change the classification system for games to the same as that of movies (eg R18+).

      Unless this guy is running in South Australia voting for him isn't going to help in this particular issue.

  7. And if you are wondering... by Wiarumas · · Score: 4, Funny

    And if you are wondering, he is a level 27 gnome Frost Mage on the Anetheron server. His account was banned after some in game threats to a Blizzard dev.

    --
    I will bend like a reed in the wind.
    1. Re:And if you are wondering... by Dekortage · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mod parent funny. Doubly so if it's true.

      It'd be even funnier if one of his opponents also had a WoW account and they could duke it out online. You could record it and release the highlights. People love entertainment, you know. It'd be a modern gladiator fight.

      Of course, people wouldn't be thrilled about their elected officials playing video games for hours. They're supposed to be dining with lobbyists or something, right?

      --
      $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
  8. Hate the player, not the game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, Greg Tannahill seems to be saying the Australian government shouldn't really hate the player, either, just disagree disagree (but not limit) what he or she chooses to play.

    On a side note, I never realized Kotaku has gained the level and size of organization that they have localized "editions."

  9. Impossible by Oh+no,+it's+Dixie · · Score: 1

    Censorship says that the thought is the action; that the common person can't distinguish between depiction and actuality...

    Respect for the individual? He'll never get elected in today's political climate.

    1. Re:Impossible by CrashPoint · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Respect for the individual? He'll never get elected in today's political climate.

      Or yesterday's, or tomorrow's.

    2. Re:Impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He'll never get elected because he's an Aussie Democrat! Didn't they just recently have a little funeral party because they've all been elected out of parliament?

  10. Heard an interesting story... by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Interesting

    from a minister this weekend. When he was a boy he lived in a rural part of Kentucky. There wasn't much to do around there, and video games weren't invented yet, so his brother used to "playfight" in the woods with some of his friends. They would take shotguns and shoot towards each other, making sure they were either out of range of the shotgun, or behind a tree. His brother was "playfighting" when one of his friends misjudged his distance. The results were similar to those of Harry Whittington after hunting with Dick Cheney. The injuries weren't life threatening, just very painful.

    Upon hearing that story I decided that violent video games probably prevent more injury/death than they cause.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Haoie · · Score: 1

      This pretty, stupid, for a lack of better words.

      I mean, seriously, kids playing with loaded guns. What could go wrong?

      --
      If each mistake being made is a new one, then progress is being made.
    2. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see your point, but I bet you 9 out of 10 "rural Kentucky" kids could handle a gun more safely than 9 out of 10 "coast city" adults...

      Playing with loaded guns is pretty stupid, not just for kids, but for adults too.

    3. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kids are renowned for never doing anything stupid.

    4. Re:Heard an interesting story... by vajaradakini · · Score: 1

      Country kids always seem to have the most dangerous/painful ways to have fun. I know a guy who would hold onto electric fences in order to convince his friends that it was off so they would touch it and get shocked.

      --
      what's that now?
    5. Re:Heard an interesting story... by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Safe handling of a gun usually excludes the act of shooting towards other people for fun.

    6. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 1

      That is categorically the dumbest thing I have ever heard. That's akin to being bored, so you and your friends drive at 80 miles per hour and try to stop just before you hit a brick wall.

      We could power the US off of Darwin's grave-spinning.

      --
      I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    7. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      Well if you survive getting shot at or worse getting shot you're fit (enough). Nothing to upset Darwin at all.

    8. Re:Heard an interesting story... by smegged · · Score: 1

      Common Kiff, teenagers all smoke and they seem pretty on the ball.

    9. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Anthony · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Two stories from the seventies in South Australia.

      Kids under twelve sometimes had slug guns, especially those in rural and semi-rural areas.

      One kid told me of slug gun fights they would have, hiding behind logs and taking shots at each other. Once during a "game" one kid stood up and shot just as another poked his head around a tree. He lost an eye.

      Another boy was sitting in his bedroom with his Dad's .22 aiming it all over the place. He then lined up his mum through an open window. She was putting washing out. He pulled the trigger. Why the gun was loaded, noone knew. One shot through the eye killed his mother.

      I myself at about the same age found an uncle's slug gun and despearately tried to find slugs for it. I settled for cocking and firing it unloaded, even though I heard it was not good for it.

      I don't know what guidance these boys had about gun safety. Sometimes it is lost when a bunch of young boys goad each other on.

      Shooting at pixels on a screen sure beats real life for irresponsible boys.

      --
      Slashdot: Where nerds gather to pool their ignorance
    10. Re:Heard an interesting story... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I guess we'd better do a better job of training our military in gun safety, then.

  11. Respect for the individual? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Respect for the individual? He'll never get elected in today's political climate.

    People who actually give a shit about individual rights don't seek power over others. By trying to become a politician, he's just another Boromir who thinks he can do good by taking the One Ring.

    1. Re:Respect for the individual? by Cat+Panic · · Score: 1

      People who actually give a shit about individual rights don't seek power over others. By trying to become a politician, he's just another Boromir who thinks he can do good by taking the One Ring.

      Interesting point of view.
      I personally think that anyone who is prepared to take on the system from within is engaged in a noble cause, whatever might happen to him inside.

    2. Re:Respect for the individual? by Sabriel · · Score: 2, Funny

      People who actually give a shit about individual rights don't seek power over others. By trying to become a politician, he's just another Boromir who thinks he can do good by taking the One Ring.

      By that analogy, are you proposing we throw the government into an active volcano?

      Because I don't think that will help.

    3. Re:Respect for the individual? by wellingj · · Score: 3, Funny

      You may think that but I want proof otherwise before we dismiss the idea.

    4. Re:Respect for the individual? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

      By that analogy, are you proposing we throw the government into an active volcano?

      Because I don't think that will help.

      I doubt that tossing Congress into an active volcano will help, as there's no shortage of power-hungry, meddlesome assholes itching to replace them, but I want to do it anyway. I want to hear those bastards scream.

    5. Re:Respect for the individual? by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      What about a catapult?

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  12. Self filter? by ggwood · · Score: 1

    I don't see why most games can't give users the tools to self filter. At that point, it's the parent's responsibility.

    --
    a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    1. Re:Self filter? by LoofWaffle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that is the point of the ESRB (regardless of personal opinion about its effectiveness). The biggest problem with the ESRB "tool" is that many (not all) parents either don't understand how to use the tool, don't think that the game content is an issue for their kid, or just don't care.
      Before too long you have a kid kill a bunch of people and if the media determines the kid played violent video games then they sensationalize it. Yet, you never hear the media tell the story of say, LeBron James who grew up playing EA Sports NBA XX and became a great basketball player.

      --
      You know, Custer had a plan.
    2. Re:Self filter? by Danse · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't see why most games can't give users the tools to self filter. At that point, it's the parent's responsibility.

      They do. The consoles have parental controls built in. Parents just don't seem to want to bother to use them.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    3. Re:Self filter? by Original+Replica · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Before too long you have a kid kill a bunch of people and if the media determines the kid played violent video games then they sensationalize it.

      Or the kid listened to Heavy Metal, or played Dungeons and Dragons, or dressed funny and wouldn't stay off my lawn. They never seem to point out the things like "started fights regularly in school" or "had a history of sudden violent outbursts" or "used threats of suicide to manipulate others" or "would mutter angrily to himself while polishing his gun"; but if the kid plays violent video games Watch Out!!!

      --
      We are all just people.
    4. Re:Self filter? by Cooldrew · · Score: 1

      I know that Valve's games (or at least, the older Half-Life period ones) came with parental controls to lock out blood. I think that more should follow this strategy. Or, just have a paintball mode like Goldeneye.

    5. Re:Self filter? by Danse · · Score: 1

      I know that Valve's games (or at least, the older Half-Life period ones) came with parental controls to lock out blood. I think that more should follow this strategy.
      Or, just have a paintball mode like Goldeneye.

      Blood tends to be a consequence of violence. Locking out blood seems pretty pointless in a violent game. A paintball mode might work for some games, but it would seem pretty out of place in others. Sometimes parents have to tell their kids no. When they're ready to handle games with more adult content, then let them play them. Trying to nerf games that involve lots of violence doesn't seem like a good idea, nor should game developers try to please everyone with every game. Some games just aren't for kids. So don't let them play those.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    6. Re:Self filter? by ggwood · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that is the point of the ESRB (regardless of personal opinion about its effectiveness). The biggest problem with the ESRB "tool" is that many (not all) parents either don't understand how to use the tool, don't think that the game content is an issue for their kid, or just don't care.

      But once you give them the tool, it doesn't matter if they choose not to use it. The ball is in their court.

      My wife and I do edit the content our kids see. I wish it were easier.

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    7. Re:Self filter? by IntergalacticWalrus · · Score: 1

      Typical twisted American logic: violence is OK if there is no blood showing!

      I'm tired of that bullshit. Shooting people is shooting people. Blood happens because that's what being shot at does. Removing blood does not magically turn violent acts into non-violent acts, it only makes them slightly less realistic-looking. In the end this is still the exact same level of violence, you haven't changed any of it.

      Blood is a fundamental part of our bodies, it serves as a vessel for oxygen and nutriments, but has no inherent "violent" attributes in it.

  13. I look forward by Vladimirgarg · · Score: 1

    to the day when a sitting president, senator, or representative will have grown up using the internet and playing computer games for his or her entire life. Until then, it's going to be the rare person who tries (much less succeeds) in understanding what all those young whippersnappers are on about.

    1. Re:I look forward by Malekin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't - when that day comes he/she will be just as out of touch with the young people of the time as the caggy old bastards we have now are with our current issues.

    2. Re:I look forward by grahamd0 · · Score: 1

      But we'll be older then too, so they'll be right in line with our positions.

      Now get off my lawn!

    3. Re:I look forward by Kreigaffe · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up, I've already posted and cannot!

      I'm only 26, and already feel pretty out of touch and generally disgruntled towards and distrustful of kids these days. And I'm not near at the point yet where they're using all kinds of technology I don't understand.
      Kids are dumb.

      I look forward to our first Mario president.

      --
      ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  14. Are games really just a depiction? by LordZardoz · · Score: 1

    Please note that I in no way endorse game censorship of the sort that Jack Thompson advocates.

    However, I do think that Video games should be handled differently than books movies and television. Videogames are more than just a depiction of an action or narrative. Videogames are an interactive immersion in an action or narrative.

    It is one thing to portray a torture scene in a TV show such as 24. But to put the control of those actions in the hands of a player is different. It is not such a stretch to think that what may be acceptable in a movie may not be acceptable in a game as a result of the presence of the aspect of choice.

    END COMMUNICATION

    1. Re:Are games really just a depiction? by Tenek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, I would say it's less acceptable to portray a torture scene in a TV show like 24. People get it into their heads that it's ok for government agents to do such things to people. Particularly politicians - see http://www.slate.com/id/2195864/

    2. Re:Are games really just a depiction? by Cormophyte · · Score: 1

      I think it's not just a depiction, but does the difference between depiction and interactivity really that large? We're sensory processing machines. Our behavior patterns are formed to a small extent from the contemplative process, and only if the result of that thought process is reinforced repeatedly from the outside. To a much greater extent experience teaches us how we react to the world. What we see, feel, hear, taste, and smell, that's what forms our view of the world and our beliefs as to what's acceptable and good for achieving our goals.

      Games do not stimulate us in the same way that actually running out and carjacking someone does. When you fire a gun in Quake you don't feel the recoil, when you get shot it doesn't hurt, when you steal someone's car in GTA they don't fight back. Yes, if you take someone with an economic or psychological reason for violence, yes, it may give them a bad idea. And yes, children shouldn't play GTA and other games which are similarly dismissive of human life and property. Violence and, more importantly, a lack of empathy for your fellow man shouldn't be practiced at time when a person is just starting to define their morality. However, I reject the idea that a game (except for those sweet-ass virtual reality games from 90's sci-fi movies, I'd sacrifice my moral foundation to play one of those) can provide a relatively mature brain with enough varied stimulation and experience to make a change in the fundamental morality of that person.

    3. Re:Are games really just a depiction? by Lost+Engineer · · Score: 1

      You mean like they should have a whole different ratings system, wherein interactive acts of violence gains you higher ratings more quickly than passive scenes in a TV show?

    4. Re:Are games really just a depiction? by oracle128 · · Score: 1

      It is one thing to portray a torture scene in a TV show such as 24. But to put the control of those actions in the hands of a player is different. It is not such a stretch to think that what may be acceptable in a movie may not be acceptable in a game as a result of the presence of the aspect of choice.

      On the other hand, Kiefer Sutherland had to actually, phsyically act out those scenes, yet he hasn't turned into a serial killer. And by taking the role, he chose to do so, as do the people who watch the show. Which is pretty much the same as a person choosing to play a game, and choosing to perform those acts in game, except in a far less realistic manner.

      Then you have the conundrum that, if the gamer is truly given the choice of performing these acts in a game (and lets face it, the actual feasibility of choice of commiting violence in a game that allows it is much rarer than the illusion of choice), you have to wonder why they chose that direction in the first place. And then you have to prove there was some compelling psychiatric reason they did so that can link to real-life behaviour, and not rely on reasons like "because the game lets me", "I wanted to explore all options in the game" or "in the game, violence is the more beneficial/entertaining option".

  15. That's more common than you think by cvd6262 · · Score: 1

    Not with "real" guns, but a "friend" of mine used to play this game:

    Get two friends and two bb guns. Put the guns on a table (pumped to maximum pressure) then play odds & evens: On the count "three," put out one or two fingers. If all three players put out the same number, the round is a draw. If one of the three is different, he (or she?) runs away from the table while the other two grab the guns and try to hit him in the back.

    Oh, hours of fun.

    --

    I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.

  16. Just in case you're wondering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    The candidate's name is Greg Tannahill he maintains a gaming blog and a political blog.

    Gaming blog: The Dust Forms Words

    Campaign blog: Greg Tannahill for Canberra.

  17. Just a pity... by dakameleon · · Score: 2, Informative

    ... that he's standing for the Democrats; they're one of the saner parties out there with real, considered positions, but their voter base is 1 - 2%, going on the results of the previous election (2007).

    --
    Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    1. Re:Just a pity... by smegged · · Score: 1

      Certainly saner than the Green party, and along similar levels of insanity to the two major parties. However, the Democrats are dead in the water. Howard saw to that one with the GST.

  18. Greg Tannahill's blogs by Arkem+Beta · · Score: 2, Informative

    The candidate's name is Greg Tannahill he maintains a gaming blog and a political blog.
    Gaming blog: The Dust Forms Words
    Campaign blog: Greg Tannahill for Canberra.

    1. Re:Greg Tannahill's blogs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  19. Gaming fodder by ukepyper · · Score: 2, Informative

    The big problem being addressed here is specific to Australia - in that they do not have an 18+ or R rating. If a game is not suitable for a 16 year old - it's canned on that basis by the censors. Poor.

  20. Noble cause? by Lilith's+Heart-shape · · Score: 1

    I personally think that anyone who is prepared to take on the system from within is engaged in a noble cause, whatever might happen to him inside.

    I personally distrust anybody with a "noble cause". Experience has shown me that the more noble the cause, the more ignoble the means used in service to the cause.

    1. Re:Noble cause? by Cat+Panic · · Score: 1

      Agreed, seeing as we were talking about politicians.

  21. I agree. The best way to test whether or not chucking a government into a volcano will help is to actually do it. Let's start with Robert Mugabe and his Zanu-PF cronies.

  22. What happened to parental responsibility? by Vivika · · Score: 1

    You know, when I was a kid and wanted to buy video games, my parents would actually read the content on the box! Gasp, what a novel idea! Now the politicians want to rally around soccer moms who blame the industry for producing what its (paying) audience wants to buy. Look out, soon no one will be allowed to produce R-rated films because some parents did not feel they could be bothered to make sure they knew what their kids were watching. It is good to see someone drawing attention to the public's right to choose its own forms of entertainment and exercising this right at its own discretion, even briefly.