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Foreign-owned Hotels To Install Firewall In China

Posted by timothy on from the autocracy-at-work dept.

Frosty Piss writes "Foreign-owned hotels in China face the prospect of 'severe retaliation' if they refuse to install government software that can spy on Internet use by hotel guests coming to watch the summer Olympic games. Republican Senator Sam Brownback produced a translated version of a document from China's Public Security Bureau that requires hotels to use the monitoring equipment. The Public Security Bureau order threatens that failure to comply could result in financial penalties, suspending access to the Internet or the loss of a license to operate a hotel in China. The policy was designed to 'ensure the smooth opening' of the Olympics, as well as 'promote the healthy and orderly development of the Internet, safeguard state security, maintain social order and protect public interests,' the translation of the one of the documents read."

13 of 114 comments (clear)

  1. Shooting themselves in the foot by pwnies · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I really don't understand China. They lock down the flow of information in their country so that they don't look bad, but in doing so generate a ton of negative media saying how they lock down their information. Could someone please explain what benefit this gives them?

    1. Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by SpeedyDX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They generate a lot of negative media OUTSIDE of China. It probably doesn't matter much to the Chinese government that foreigners view the administration with disdain, as long as Chinese nationals view the administration with respect and trust. In that sense, the People's Republic of China is very successful, as the vast majority Chinese nationals respect their leaders and believe that their leaders are doing their best to protect and promote the interests of China and its citizens.

    2. Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by Telvin_3d · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because they do not care what you think. They do not care what your politicians think. As long as they can control the information that their own people have access to, any outside fallout is more than acceptable.

    3. Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They don't care what you think.

      China, like much of the world, is very nationalistic, and it's hard for Americans to understand. Your nationality, ethnicity, language... all the same. They can't seperate a criticism of China the government from a criticism the people.

      So the government have the Chinese people happily convinced that China is the greatest ever, there ever was, and all criticism from the outside is basically racism. Calling the government corrupt is as personally offensive to the average Chinese citizen as personally calling him a slant-eyed chink.

      So, from the Chinese nationalists perspective, they're doing a good job blocking all that "racist propoganda". It's basically (to them) analagous to many western governments banning "hate speech".

    4. Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by meburke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It may be different than you think. I have a book called "The Asian Mind Game" by Chin-ning Chu that describes the different mindset that Chines (and Japanese and Koreans) start with when conducting their affairs. There is a distinct difference in cultural values, therefore there is a difference in cultural behavior. China's government is constantly in turmoil, and control is very important. Outside influences can undermine that control pretty quickly (and, in fact, has caused much change over the last 20 years).

      Basically, the Chinese government doesn't care what we THINK about them as long as we ACT in ways that benefit their goals. The Chinese government is losing a long war against education; the populace is getting to smart and being exposed to too many new ideas. They have loosened up on the Command Economy, and are maintaining a fragile balance of control in other regards. So, IMO, the benefit to them is less turmoil from their own population.

      --
      "The mind works quicker than you think!"
    5. Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by vajaradakini · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It probably doesn't matter much to the Chinese government that foreigners view the administration with disdain, as long as Chinese nationals view the administration with respect and trust.

      Especially if they can pass off any negative foreign views of China as being an anti-Chinese bias.

      --
      what's that now?
    6. Re:Shooting themselves in the foot by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Stop fearmongering -- yes, there are issues. Yes, we should be vigilant. But that doesn't also mean we can't be thankful for the freedoms that we do have.

      And what has being vigilant gotten us?
      A) The worst excesses of 1960's wiretapping & spying on citizens (Nixon & COINTELPRO)
      B) Politicization of the Justice Department
      C) Weakening of Federal regulatory Agencies & environmental protections
      D) All of the above.

      And those are just the first non-debatable items I could pull off the top of my head. Obviously the USA has free speech & China doesn't, but the USA is heading in China's direction as opposed to a transparent and open Democracy.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  2. Wait... by casualsax3 · · Score: 5, Funny

    So Brownback is upset that the Chinese government is forcing companies to spy on innocent citizens? Hypocrite much?

    1. Re:Wait... by manifoldronin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah I was thinking something similar. On the upside, at least in China you KNOW when the government is watching. They aren't that courteous in the U.S..

      I'm sorry, I tried a number of times to write a polite reply, but it still came down to this - WHAT THE FUCK!

      Did you guys notice that TFA was talking about the hotels for foreigners? For an average Chinese, the government does not just monitor you, it simply BLOCKS you from seeing what it doesn't want you to see.

      Did you guys know that in China everybody has to disclose their real life identity before they get online? Did you guys know that there have been people in China going to jail just for posting on the Internet to question government policies?

      Now try and show me how much worse - or less courteous - it is in the US.

      I mean, I'm upset with the warrantless eavesdropping issue as much as the next guy. I have gone so far as to rent my own dedicated server and ran all my traffic through thor. But on the other hand, I think that going as far as stating "they aren't that courteous in the US" only shows how ungrateful you are.

      --
      Tyranny isn't the worst enemy of a democracy. Cynicism is.
    2. Re:Wait... by hedronist · · Score: 4, Funny

      > and ran all my traffic through thor.

      Uh, that one stopped me for a moment.

      Image having the Thunder God himself doing stateful packet inspection! Wow, talk about security!

  3. From our perspective, yes, but... by ThousandStars · · Score: 4, Interesting

    James Fallows already did in The Great Firewall. The short version: China is worried chiefly about controlling its own people and setting bad internal precedents. It's not as worried about the rest of the world. In addition, the Chinese authorities are somewhat inept, as he explains here. Because neither can be excerpted effectively, you'll just have to follow the links.

  4. Re:Capitalism by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    This post is so full of wrong-ness, I can hardly believe it. Where to begin?

    Incompatible with liberalism

    If by "liberalism" you mean the philosophy of letting people do their own thing (i.e., what libertarianism used to be called), you couldn't be more wrong. Capitalism is the ideal economic system for such a political philosophy.

    Incompatible with conservatism

    I guess that depends on how you define "conservatism". You may have a point, but don't be so vague.

    Incompatible with human rights

    The fact that the US has always been capitalistic, and done ok on human rights (not great, but not terrible either), contradicts this.

    Incompatible with human nature.

    Absolute horseshit. Capitalism aligns PERFECTLY with human nature. Human nature is to improve one's own lot in life as much as possible. Capitalism is to make as much profit for oneself as possible.

    Somebody please tell me why we're still fisting Adam Smith's very dry corpse?

    Maybe because it's worked out pretty damned well? It's not perfect, but nothing is. Maybe you live in a world where everything goes right all the time, but most of us sure don't.

    --
    "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
  5. Do business in China, play by Chinese rules. by vampire_baozi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The other option is not get a cut of the market at all. Everyone wants in to China's market- if a company isn't willing to compromise and accept breaching the rights of Chinese citizens, another Western company (and more frequently, Chinese companies) will step up and happily take their place. And as long as the Chinese government keeps delivering economic growth like this, we'll keep scrambling to get a piece of the pie, and the Chinese citizenry will happily give up their civil liberties in return for stability and nice hotels to stay in. After all, compared with pre-reform China, hotels with any internet are a dream come true. With China, and its government, growth and stability go hand-in-hand. Both government and citizens are willing to sacrifice civil rights for it. Not the ideal bargain, but better than some countries ;) We're giving up our civil liberties in America, and not getting much in return.